I play a Fender Strat and Tele...the Fralin PUs in them hand wound to 1954 strat specs. After playing a million amps, I settled on a Fender 59 Tweed Bassman Reissue. The only amp I've ever played I like siginificantly better? A 68 Twin recently reccapped and cleaned up...it was in for the maintanence--not for sale.

My bass of choice? Fender 62RI P bass. Keyboards in my stuff don't go much beyond emulations of Wurlis, Rhodes suitcase, Acoustic grand, and Hammond organ through a Leslie. While I've tried all kinds of modern compressors--high end, low end, analog, digital...I keep coming back to the Urei/Teltronix LA 2a and 3a.

Now...there was really no grand "plan to be retro" so much as it just happened that way. I gravitated there.

I was thinking about that this weekend, when I was talking to a man who makes microphones. He said (echoing the sentiments I've heard from many modern mic makers) that he doesn't "recreate the past", but instead makes microphones that are equal in quality to the classics. So, as a guitarist, my mind drifted back to guitars...

There's nothing wrong with Mesa Boogies. Or Tom Anderson guitars. They are fine instruments. Expressive. Every bit the theoretical "equal" of a Strat and Bassman--in many ways BETTER designs. More flexible sound, better intonation, more road worthy...but, sound nothing like them. And there's comfort in the sounds of the past. Call it cheating in the attempt to exploit the common thread that binds us all. Or a head start.

Then you've got companies like Victoria who are dedicated to recreating the past. Their 4x10 tweed 50wt is a touch sweeter than Fender's own RI...for those with the kind of money it takes to spare no expense. But, the difference is one of nuance, IMO.

Man, U67s are expensive. Yet there is no less expensive "reissue" or recreation. Sure the SD U95s (and I would a ssume the newer U99) and AT 4060 are...sort of in the same ballpark of sound. Tracy Korby's 67 cap is a phenom mic that comes pretty close--probably closer if you have him not pull the mids back like he does normally. But, Korby's is more $$ than a refurbed 67...SD's don't really sound like a 67. Neither does the 4060. Both might get "inpired by" at best. Maybe a "reissue" never has quite the mojo of an original...but, it sure does offer the recognizable sound for less than an arm and a leg. If I had to buy a real 59 Bassman...and a 54 Strat...I'd be ALL ABOUT some Tom Andersons and Mesas.

But, my music wouldn't be the same...or would it?

How's this for some irony? Check the slogan:

I have an affection for old amps. I still have my first guitar amp, an early sixties Ampeg Reverberocket II. My next amp was a mid 70's Ampeg V4 with 2- 4x12 cabinets ( the cabs got stolen in '93), I bought it when I was 16 instead of a car. After that my brother-in-law (at the time)gave me an early 70's champ. My other old amp is an old Gibson Skylark.
In the 90's I went through several rack rigs, all that stuff is gone but my beloved old amps remain. It's a running joke when I show up at band camp " so how old is that amp Rock?"
The only old guitars I've held on to are a "79 Les Paul custom Black Beauty that rarely sees the light of day because it's so damn heavy and a '76 Martin D35. My other guitars are a '52 Tele re-issue and a '91 Strat plus with gold lace sensors.
My only old mic is a shure 55s, it was given to me about 30 years ago. I thought it was old then.
I think old gear has good build quality, sounds great if properly maintained and who can argue with the vibe?

Rocky

Well Pop. I too like the sounds of the past. I play Gibson Les Pauls with Wagner pickups, because they sound like the old PAFs. Its just the sound I like. I also use Gretsch 6120 guitars on stage with TV JOnes pickups. Why? Becuase they sound better than the new shit, and they also sound as good as the old. I use a lot of vintage sounding amps, pres, mics etc. There is something special about the sound. (BTW.. I occasionally played guitar with Victoria founder Mark B, at an old farm house here in IL. He was quite the blues player)

Anyway, there was also a lot of junk made in the past. Only the good shit survived. Neumann mics, fender guitars and amps, Gibsons, API, NEVE ect. When I say survive, I mean stands the test of time. They sounded good then, and they sound good now. I think that some of the modern gear will also stand the test of time, and will be good in the future as well. Anderson guitars are nice, but nothing special to me. That said, in 50 years, I still think they will be nice guitars, no matter what new guitar is out.

GOOD GEAR IS GOOD GEAR. No matter when it was made. I also think technology is not always better. It's quicker to build, maintain and can be done for less money. But, that all sacrifices something. The TLC that the originals were created with.

JD

I think most musicians have some kind of soul tie to music of the past. It's like we have that sound in our head from when we were first fascinated by a recording. For me, even though times have changed, I still refer back to that sound.

No, I don't want to release an eighties sounding record. But, there is an appreciation for the sound and the feeling I got from those recordings.

So when I started recording, I was really sold, hook, line, and sinker by the vintage sound marketing. Especially in the area of Vocal recording and processing.

quote:

Anyway, there was also a lot of junk made in the past. Only the good shit survived.

Univox comes to mind here....although it would be cool to have a Super Fuzz around for shits and giggles.

Rocky

Ha! Even funnier to me is what we all "consider" vintage sounding. LMFAO!

I consider the great recording and gear from about 1955 to about the mid 1970's. So gear from RCA, Teletronix, UA, UREI, Telefunken, API and NEVE. Yet others consider the great vintage sounds, somewhere in the 1980's. Though rest assured most of the great tunes of the 80's were recorded on NEVE and API desks.

On a side note, Alex Van Halen's drums were all recorded with Shure SM57's through a API 1604 ( I think that was the model). You just can't beat a well built mic and great discrete preamps. Stands the test of times!

In the spirit of the "all sm57" song...I should do a track with nothing but a NI synth, Parker Fly into a Deisel, Lakland (not their recreations), and Rode mics. What'd'ya think? I've already got the Hv3 to use as preamp.

The thought of that recording makes me queasy.

First thing that comes to mind on non-agreement is the "Nativity in Black" tributes to Black Sabbath. Sabbath had great riffs, but if you compare the original Sweetleaf to the Godsmack cover - man there's some difference in intensity. And I'd say that it's because of the improvement in electronics, effects, etc.

Then again, for some (a lot) of music this doesn't hold true. So, mixed feelings, I guess.

Yeah...I could see that.

Lohan wouldn't have a singing career either...

You know what kinda got me thinking about this a while back? Joss Stone. Don't get me wrong, she sounds incredible through the C800 they use on her records...but, particularly on the first I always thought it was a strangely mismatched "modern" sound over an old sounding band. Then she did the tune with Herbie Hancock. It sounds "right" for her style...then I see a clip of the sessions? A beat to hell U67/87 (couldn't see the cable connect well enough to tell which it was, but...)

They coulda used a C800. But, they recognized that for the song/style, that was "the" sound.

quote:

Originally posted by Popmann:
But, my music wouldn't be the same...or would it?

Your music definitely would NOT be the same, but my reasoning is probably different than yours…….or, maybe not.

As for my personal instruments, this varies.
I love each and every single guitar I have....and I have somewhere around 40 of them.
Each and every single one of them offers me something different.

However, I know I don't actually need what they offer to make a recording or play in front of people. Well, some I did actually need to play out in a particular time, such as the locking nut equipped guitars. However, what is so invaluable is what happens to me when I play them.

At one time I had about 6-7 guitars I played out with that had tremolos, all but one was locking. The one that wasn't was my second ever real guitar. I loved it, it played and sounded great.....and for recording, the floating trems were lousy for rhythm parts because I sometimes attack the strings too hard and they suffer from warble. Besides, the non-locking trem just plain sounded better.

As time went on, I found I needed to have different sounds. First humbuckers on a non-locking trem....and I went for a fixed bridge. Then I needed real Strat and Tele sounds, so I bought a couple of each.

At the time, I loved playing on a flatter radius. Someone bought me a great Tele Reissue with a V shaped neck and the old type of finish. I had to really get used to the feel of the whole instrument. It seemed so weird, unlike anything I played on a regular basis, even Strats with rounded necks or my other Teles.

But, there was just some striking vibe and mojo to it. It was undeniable and I didn't try to suppress it.

At first, I played it only when I needed the tonality of it. But then I started to pick it up when I was just sitting around playing and I started to create differently. It was not conscious at all, just something that happened.
And I went with it.

I have (and had) a bunch of strats, most of which I picked because they had some attrubute I not only liked, buy was familiar with...like a flatter radius fretboard, or one with a floating but non-locking trem. Then I bought a reissue Strat I saw for sale used. Guess what? Same thing happened as with the Tele. I started to feel differently and just naturally played and created differently too.

The vibe alone just did (and does) something to me.
Yes, my other guitars had a vibe too, all of them a bit different, almost like pets.

And of course, I was evolving as a musician....as was music itself and the role I had in what I was doing.

I wound up buying various Gibson or Epiphone guitars, some recently: a Casino, Les Paul Junior, and Les Paul Melody maker....all with P-90s...along with an SG.

Recently I bought my fist true Jazz box.

They all speak to me, influence me, get inside of me.....all in a different way. Yes, some sound very different, but there is so much more to why I have them then that. It's their influence on me; yust holding them in my hands brings out musical emotion.

My opinion on recording gear is similar.

Yes, I can tell a difference between mics.....it seems huge when I am listening critically to them soloed. Yet, on playback, all anyone else can hear is me, not the mic or the preamp. We have all heard our favorite musicians and bands over the course of their career. You would recognize your favorite vocalist if they sang through a cardboard tube…..and love the hell out of it too.

However, when I am listening critically, when I am finding a mic I like for whatever I am doing, and I experiment until I find what moves me.....well, the pay off to the performance can be huge. So, while it might be that very few people may be able to tell what's going on sonically, except for maybe a few who happen to catch it, just about everyone listening can feel it in the performance, good, bad, or indifferent.

Personally, I never thought about a mic when in a studio.....and never wanted to. I did care about what I was hearing when I listened back though. It was the engineer's job to capture what he wanted and to provide me what I needed in the cans, and if really good, a great atmosphere as well. In the home studio, I must all of that for myself.

And so, I started searching. First for a mic I could afford. Then for one I could afford and loved hearing myself through when I recorded. Funny, sometimes the end result had relatively small sonic improvements.....meaning, they sounded huge to me while tracking, but I still always sounded as close to me as almost anyone else cared about. However, the sonic effect was sometimes immense to me emotionally, mentally, and physically.....resulting in better performances, hence, better recordings.

Yes, they were better sonically too. But we all know about great sonics and sub par.....yada, yada, yada.....I can't even bring myself to repeat it.

In the end, it is the effect the instruments and signal chain have the way I feel, the way I perform, sometimes what I wind up playing, always the way I am energized and influenced by all that is occurring. For me, while recording, this is truly the whole being greater than the sum of the parts. It becomes unexplainable, and really, it needs no explanation.

All that matters is the end result. So, it's not just how, say, a guitar sounds, it's the way it feels in your hands, maybe the way it looks, maybe just the vibe of it.......or all of it together. It's the same thing with mics, etc. If it makes you want to blow a headgasket when you hear it, or does that to someone just seeing it in front of them, so be it....it doesn't matter what or why, it's how it effects you doing what you do.....or others working with you.

And that's what my gear lust is about. That's why as long as it doesn't get out of hand I have no problem with it.

Holding a certain guitar in my hands, feeling my soul resonate through my guitar and amp, hearing my voice orgasm out of a certain mic, has done more for my performances than any amount of theory or practice ever could (not that there's anything wrong with theory....and yes, I know theory....and practice ).

After all, it's that feeling that made me go back to my guitar, hour after hour, day after day, month after month, and year after year after the first time I picked it up. It's that feeling that made me a musician. So, whatever it takes to sustain that feeling is worth whatever it costs (within reason of not selling my soul or my child's toys ).

Gear lust? Bring it on..........

quote:

You would recognize your favorite vocalist if they sang through a cardboard tube…..and love the hell out of it too.

Agreed. Motherfuckers. Great voices. Pffftt.

quote:

hearing my voice orgasm out of a certain mic, has done more for my performances than any amount of theory or practice ever could

Is that like when I first plugged in the Korby 67, sang through it and cried? Like that? "This is what I sound like from the outside..." ??

You've listened to my stuff...we've talked...the latest--people's acoustic and thin issues aside...I laid it on the line, no? Vocally? I'll have you know that in between takes, I ran upstairs to tell MsPop, "I love this microphone...it makes me sound like I don't suck."

That's what you meant...right?

Wanna send me the 2247 now?

quote:

Originally posted by Popmann:

sang through it and cried? Like that?

Yes, like that. Imn my case, I really like the sound of my voice , I just hate what some mics do to it.

When I plugged in the 22 47 I though ahhhhhh.......finally....wonderful Neumann depth without the Neumann has (of the newer U87, TLMs, etc)......ahhh.....I'm digging this.....cool.....

When I cwitched over the the 22 251 I thought: On my friggin god......!!!! What the.......?
I must be dreaming....I can't possibly be hearing this......let me take a break and come back in a couple of minutes, which I did.
Same thing......I was literally stunned.
I swear to you, my GF looked at me and said, "are you about to cry? Is that song moving you that much?" I had to step back.....I was in shock.

At that moment, I realized why people pay so much money for great mics. The effect it had on me was astounding.

quote:

You've listened to my stuff...we've talked...the latest--people's acoustic and thin issues aside...I laid it on the line, no? Vocally? I'll have you know that in between takes, I ran upstairs to tell MsPop, "I love this microphone...it makes me sound like I don't suck."

I thought your voice sounded like you (as described before), but I thought the last recording sounded extremely good. My thought was: I think Pop may have reached the apex of quality in the home recording. The tones, the mix, clean and detailed.

Oh, and a nice solo too......!

quote:

Wanna send me the 2247 now?

Yes, damn it, I do......where the fuck does the time at home go?I keep getting projects or a couple of preamps (Chameleon Labs and a Sebatron) and take the mics back out.....and, well.......crap!!!!! Just don't get it together!!!!! Holy excuses Batman.....I swear my intentions are good!!!

Oh, I still do wanna come visit you and bring some gears. I also wanna do a guest spot, solo, background vocals one on one of your tunes. But I really want to do a vocal melody line for you.

And I'd like you to do keys, background vocals, and lyrics for me.

Hey Pop, seriously, let's talk this weekend.
Sunday evenings are best. Saturday nights are good as long as there's not major boxing or mixed martial arts event on.

Hey, I know, I'll give you a call tomorrow aftr work on my ride home. Cool?

I'll get you those damn mics one way or the other....before you die of old agae....I swear to god I will!!!!!

Its always been hit or miss for me in the vintage dept...even in 1959, Fender and Gibson made some real dogs (which might explain why they are classified as "mint" - they sucked so bad no one wanted to play them)...

Be that as it may, I've yet to come across any new amp that sounds as good to me (even blind testing) as a well maintained old one...guitars? well, I sold all my vintage ones (pre 1965) a few years ago, but have either real or reissued vintage pups in all of them...teles, strats, etc...

Just another opinion.

This thread kind of loses me. You aren't saying vintage gear is best, just modern reincarnations of selected pieces of vintage gear are best for your music...

I kinda dig my Ultracaster through my Budda for my thing.

-Dusty

quote:

This thread kind of loses me. You aren't saying vintage gear is best, just modern reincarnations of selected pieces of vintage gear are best for your music

OK. I'm lost on why you're lost. That's OK, man. It's all groovy.

quote:

Hey, I know, I'll give you a call tomorrow aftr work on my ride home. Cool?

That's cool. But, write lyrics for you? HA! It's like pulling teeth for me to write lyrics for ME...

Alright then, send me your next melody and I will write lyrics that slay you.

I have this thing:
I will not write my own lyrics before the melody line. For me, I find that if I don't get the meoldy line I like, with no more than scat vocals but with specific words, the melody lines are governed by the lyrics, which I don't like because in my experience, the melody is not catchy.

Then, when I get a really catchy melody line, the sounds of the scat lines I sing make me feel stuck to the syllables, specifially the vowels, I wind up singing. And so, I wind up writing lyrics of words that sound good, but are not quite a good story. The word play may be excellent, but the story line may be ambiguous.

Music is filled with lyrics like that, I just always wanted my cake and eat it too.

In the past so many years, from writing for work, whether it be policies, procedures, letters, designing brochures, my ability to write has gotten much better.

I have written lyrics for a few pepople that are better than the lyrics I write for myself. I dunno, maybe I'm crazy.

In anycase, if you get the urge sometime, send me a melody or lyric that you either need competed from the finish for just specific parts, and I'll bring tears of joy to your eyes .
Of course, I might make you laugh your gonads off instead........

quote:

Originally posted by dusty:
This thread kind of loses me. You aren't saying vintage gear is best, just modern reincarnations of selected pieces of vintage gear are best for your music...

I kinda dig my Ultracaster through my Budda for my thing.

In my case, this is usually true...vintage stuff is just that...sometime it stinks, sometimes its pure sonic orgasm....

(BTW- Buddas a GREAT amps...wishing I had one or two here...)

I would add that except for EMGs, everything out there is based on vintage...I don't think there have been any new advancements in guitar technology for 50 years....everyone just looks for cheaper ways to make them.
-Dusty

Shoot...Electric guitar? Floyd Rose trems. Locking nuts. Active electronics. Overwound and high output PUs.

in 50 years? Overdrive. Distortion. Any number of effects. Solid state amps. Digital modelers. Buzz Feiten(and other like tuning systems). Multichannel amps. FX loops in amps.

I could go on. I don't think it's about cheapness. Matchless. Bad Cat. Yuck. $4k for a modern, hard sounding amp.

Pop...when was the last time you saw a Rose fitted guitar that was actually being USED? Almost all of them I've seen set in pawn shops...

As far as OD/distortion, they all seem to try (all unsuccessfully IMO) to emulate the sound of an overdriven Marshall/Vox/Fender....most effects are passing fads (when was the last time you used a flanger pedal...the only real effects that ha maintained the test of time are reverb (early 60s) and echo (late 50s)...solid state amps suck 99.9% of the time except for certain forms of jazz, the Feiten tuning system (which I have used) was based on work done by Les Paul and Rickenbacher...we won't even discuss modeling amps (they really are the biggest insult to musicians since the inflatable guitar)...multichannel amps have been around since MusicMan's RD50 (1978, I think)...FX loops are nothing more than properly matched (impedance wise) reverb sends and returns, so there's nothing new there...

I do think its about cheapness...just as with mic pres...IMO there are two electric guitars in the world: Teles and Les Pauls...everything else is a copy or an evolution of these...many of these evolved into their own class (strats, 335s, etc...) but when it comes down to it, these are what everything is based on...and manufacturers know this - that's why most things are merely variations of the two or three, and that helps explain why Fender strats (just as an example) can range in price from 199 to 3500 new....same shapes, same electronics principles, just the quality of the various components (and some 'signature line' further manipulating price) that are different.

Sorry to disagree...