The BV314 from TAB Funkenwerk sounds really nice. I try to describe things in these posts that are sometimes a little elusive to describe. I guess for the lack of a better term the BV314 sounds a bit more "vintage", the 2480 sounds a bit more clinical....both sound good though.

quote:

Originally posted by MPCNYC:
Last week I did a CD and the sax player picked the 1050 I mod'ed and a Apex 205 I mod'ed over a Coles 4038 and my Wunder CM7....that was a surprise!! It was interesting.

There's actually a CD out by John McNeil/Bill McHenry called "Rediscovery" on Sunnyside records. I use the 1050/Apex 205 combo on the sax and a Coles on the trumpet...

Hey Michael,

I checked out the Rediscovery CD on iTunes. Very nice recording! That mic combo definitely gives a unique sound on the tenor, especially where Mr. McHenry goes into his upper register on Marvos Manny (you might recall).

What mic placement did you use on the sax, between the 1050 and the 205?

Sorry to be off topic. I'll be quiet now.

-Wayne

It's funny that effected sort of sound is Bill McHenry...he sort gets that sort effect out of his horn when he feels like it, and it's intentional! At first I thought something was wrong with a preamp or mic.

There are "normal" sounding sax on there as well obviously. Placement was the same on all tunes.
The two mics were placed as close together as I could get them about a foot away and 8 inches or so above the bell of the horn, angled slightly downward towards the horn. Bill sounds great and I was happy with the sound considering the cramped quarters it was recorded in.

For those interested in the discussion of paralleling capacitors with 1/1000 or 1/100 the value (see further up in this thread), found this related forum topic:

Sonic Characteristics of Signal Caps

(Note that two links offered in Message #2 don't appear to work, but the rest do ...)

Enjoy,

-Wayne

And this, for those who asked "Is it ok to replace electrolytics with mylar, polar with non-polar, etc.?"

Polar vs Non-polar Capacitors

-Wayne

Hmmm. Not alot of traffic on this thread lately.

In any event, have completed my initial CEK-12 mod. As promised, here's my somewhat uneventful report, plus a couple of goodies:

1. Installed CEK-12 capsule (thanks Ashton for the pictorial).

2. Installed BV11 transformer (thanks again, Ashton). The BV11 is physically smaller than the stock tranny. Here's a pic of how I mounted it inside the bell housing. The inserts are computer-case foam with neoprene against the heat sink, and hold the BV11 quite firmly while being relatively heat resistant.



3. Removed C9, C10 (not needed as BV11 provides excellent RF rejection).

4. Removed C6, C7 (improves linearity while maintaining gain within 4dB, not needed with cathode follower left in the circuit - thanks to Dave Thomas for his prompt delivery of the mod kit and extremely patient, expert ongoing advice).

5. Replaced C8 with 2.2uf mylar cap.

Issues? Sure. A few wires came off but, once their connections were identified from the schematic, were easily replaced. I identified the connections for the BV11 by comparing the coil resistances, measured side-to-side, with the stock transformer.

Results? My new "C12" tests out fine. The sound is warm and full-range, but somewhat veiled. Once I've listened to it for awhile, I'll likely change out a few components to see if I can push the gain, and maybe brighten it slightly. For now, I love the way it sounds as is.

Not having had much interaction with the members here, I've been somewhat reticent to ask for schematics. I did, however, find this excellent reference, with exhaustive descriptions and pics of most every vintage mic you can think of, and the original C12 and Elam 250 schematics:

www.coutant.org

I managed to pick up one of Dave Thomas' early Apex460-U67 mods which uses the CEK-67 capsule and Cinemag 2480 transformer, for less than it would have cost to do the mod myself. The sound is nice, but brighter than the CEK-12. Don't know yet what I might do to alter it.

Much thanks to everyone here for all their insightful comments and suggestions. Believe me, I am finding this thread a valuable resource.

Hope what I have added here is useful to some.

Cheers,

-Wayne

If it sounds "veiled" then I would back off on C8. 2.2uf will really bring out alot of low end with the CEK-12. I changed mine to 1uf after using a 1.5uf and having to use a HPF at 200Hz to tame a female voice.

I also changed most of my resistors on mine, which opened up the mic's sound, too. I pretty much followed the C12 schematic with the resistors.

My changes are on page 12 of this thread if you're interested, but I'd start with changing C8 to something smaller. The larger sizes are more necessary with the 47ish capsules.

Lucio

Top 10 Most Popular iPod Video Tools


I Love Apple ipods, because they are the best. I don' t know what I can do without

ipod. It goes everywhere where I go. Rencently I found 10 cool iPod video tools, I want to share them with you now.



Top. 1 | Cucusoft iPod Video Converter + DVD to iPod Suite
I think this all-in-one iPod video Conversion solution is best, because I can convert both DVD media and video file media

to iPod video/iP and it' s speed is far faster than others.
Top 10 Most Popular iPod Video Tools | Posted 10/8/2008
UI skin: 8 | Speed: 8. 5 | Easy to Use: 8. 5
User Rating: 8 | Popularity: 8 | Feature: 8. 5
[URL=http://www.ipod-converter.org/downloads/dvdi.exe ]Download Now [/URL]




Top. 2 | Avex DVD to iPod Video Suite
This One-click, All-in-One solution is my favourite, because this software features superb video/audio quality, the

fastest conversion speed (Up to 3x faster). And it' s easy to use! A great software for iPod users.
Top 10 Most Popular iPod Video Tools | Posted 10/8/2008
UI skin: 7. 5 | Speed: 8 | Easy to Use: 8
User Rating: 7. 5 | Popularity: 7. 5 | Feature: 8
Download Now



Top. 3 | Aimersoft iPod Converter Suite
I love this all-in-one easy-to-use iPod MP4 video conversion tool, because it can help me rip DVD and also perfectly

convert almost all popular video and audio formats such as AVI, Divx, FLV, DAT, XviD, WMV, MPEG, MPG, RM, RMVB, MOV, ASF,

FLV, etc. to iPod MP4 (MPEG-4) H.264.
Top 10 Most Popular iPod Video Tools | Posted 10/8/2008
UI skin: 7 | Speed: 7. 5 | Easy to Use: 7. 5
User Rating: 7 | Popularity: 7 | Feature: 7. 5
Download Now



Top. 4 | Cucusoft iPhone / iTouch / iPod to Computer Transfer
I am fond of this application because it is an easy to use iPod / iPhone utility designed to help me backup all my files

from my iPod / iPhone / iTouch.
Top 10 Most Popular iPod Video Tools | Posted 10/8/2008
UI skin: 6. 5 | Speed: 7 | Easy to Use: 7
User Rating: 6. 5 | Popularity: 6. 5 | Feature: 7
Download Now




Top. 5 | Wondershare iPod Video Suite
I am keen on this useful and powerful all-in-one iPod video conversion solution, because I can convert both DVD media and

video file media to iPod video/iPod movie.
Top 10 Most Popular iPod Video Tools | Posted 10/8/2008
UI skin: 6 | Speed: 6. 5 | Easy to Use: 6. 5
User Rating: 6 | Popularity: 6 | Feature: 6. 5
Download Now



Top. 6 | dvdXsoft DVD to iPod Converter
I fancy for this software because it features the highest DVD converting speed, the best output video quality, and fully

tested on hundreds of different DVD-ROMs and DVD Movie discs that makes it qualified for strict compatibility standards. It

enables me to different video options including MP4 video codec Xvid and H264, a rich list of different resolutions, video

bitrates, video frame rates, audio bitrates, audio frequency, etc.
Top 10 Most Popular iPod Video Tools | Posted 10/8/2008
UI skin: 6 | Speed: 6 | Easy to Use: 6
User Rating: 6 | Popularity: 6. | Feature: 6
Download Now



Top. 7 | Tansee iPod Transfer
I care for this ultimate application because I can transfer song from iPod to computer easily.
Top 10 Most Popular iPod Video Tools | Posted 10/8/2008
UI skin: 5. 5 | Speed: 6 | Easy to Use: 6
User Rating: 5. 5 | Popularity: 6 | Feature: 6
Download Now




Top. 8 | PQ DVD to iPod Video Suite
I like this One-Click, All-In-One solution because it' s super fast (up to 400% faster than other solutions) DVD

conversion speed.
Top 10 Most Popular iPod Video Tools | Posted 10/8/2008
UI skin: 5. 5 | Speed: 6 | Easy to Use: 6
User Rating: 5. 5 | Popularity: 5. 5 | Feature: 6
Download Now



Top. 9 | Movkit iPod Video Converter
I prefer this helpful converter because it supports almost all video formats, including AVI,MPEG,ASF/WMV,RMVB,RM and DivX.

With it,you can easily convert AVI to MP4 / M4V / MOV, ASF / WMV to MP4 / M4V / MOV, AVI / MPEG / ASF / WMV / VOB / MOV /

DIVX / XVID / RMVB / RM to MP4.
Top 10 Most Popular iPod Video Tools | Posted 10/8/2008
UI skin: 5. 5 | Speed: 5. 5 | Easy to Use: 6
User Rating: 5. 5 | Popularity: 5. 5 | Feature: 6
Download Now



Top. 10 | Aniosoft iPod to Computer
I go for this software because I can easily backup my songs, videos from my iPod back to my PC. It is so easy to use. It

offers very fast searching and a browse mode which makes finding songs/videos on the iPod.
Top 10 Most Popular iPod Video Tools | Posted 10/8/2008
UI skin: 5 | Speed: 5. 5 | Easy to Use: 5. 5
User Rating: 5 | Popularity: 5 | Feature: 5. 5
Download Now

source :http://articles.allmyhealth.net/200810/Top-10-Most-Popu...-Video-Tools_17.html

quote:

Originally posted by LDT2:
If it sounds "veiled" then I would back off on C8. 2.2uf will really bring out alot of low end with the CEK-12. I changed mine to 1uf after using a 1.5uf and having to use a HPF at 200Hz to tame a female voice.

I also changed most of my resistors on mine, which opened up the mic's sound, too. I pretty much followed the C12 schematic with the resistors.

My changes are on page 12 of this thread if you're interested, but I'd start with changing C8 to something smaller. The larger sizes are more necessary with the 47ish capsules.

Lucio

Hi Lucio,

Good to finally talk with you. Your excellent input to this thread is very much appreciated.

Sorry to take so long to respond. I've been waiting for the used TCM-1050 I bought to arrive, and haven't checked back in a while.

Yes, I like the approach you took with your CEK-12 mod, and will likely follow your advice regarding C8, then start changing out some of the resistors after that. I'm a little reluctant to take out the cathode follower though. According to Dave Thomas, whose expertise I'm sure we all respect, it delivers a "very low output impedance" enabling the output transformer (I used the BV11, not the Cinemag 2480) to "recover much faster from transients" which logically would make the sound less veiled. That being said, I guess the only way to know for sure is to hear it with and without R8.

Now that I have my Nady 1050, I can start my U47 mod. Looking at the vintage schematic, I see that the U47 used a Telefunken UF-14 pentode (the original U67 also uses a pentode, an EF86 evidently). In the U47 circuit, both the screen and suppressor are connected directly to the plate. Apart from possibly adding noise, what difference in sound do you think the pentode makes, if any?

I apologize if this issue has already been discussed. I've read this thread so many times, it's all becoming a blur!

Regards all,

-Wayne

Cathode follower removed sounds better and much more musical IMO. I kind would almost say that is more of a fact than an opinion, as I've done about 12 of these mic and not one person liked the sound of the cathode version better. I've slowly switched them all over to removing the cathode. Again I've tested these mics a LOT and the cathode removed sounds markedly better in all applications I've tried so far. The mic sounds far more veiled without the cathode removed and much more open with it removed.

As for the Pentode vs. Triode....it's like comparing an apple to an orange. For the most part most of the classic mics out there are Pentode (at least the neumann's) This 1050 is easily converted to the best (IMO) example of a triode circuit the C12/C24....then with the voltage adjustments you can convert it into sort of a U47 ish sounding mic via a capsule (ie CEK47 from Peluso)Lucio has good advice on getting the capsule voltage right for the 47 style capsule.

I have to agree that removing the cathode follower on the C12ish circuit definitely sounds more open with better dimension, regardless of the technical reasoning. As long as the BV11's ratio is around 10:1 you'll be fine removing the CF.

I recently talked with John Peluso about the 1050/U47ish mod and asked about the "pentode" tube and he said that it is wired as a triode in the U47 circuit.

I will say that the CF will have a fuller sound in the 1050 if you want the warm and fuzzies with it and that's the only reason the keep it in that mic, but with the right capsule/tranny and circuit it can still be removed to achieve a more dimensional sound.

Lucio

Michael and Lucio,

Thanks for being there guys. Much appreciated.

Believe me, I am taking what you're telling me about the CF to heart. I don't think I'm quite there yet, but it sounds like my ears will take me there before too long.

Lucio, coincidentally I just talked to Dave Thomas about the pentode vs triode issue, and he corroborated what John Peluso told you, that in the U47 the UF-14 was wired as a triode. In addition, it seems the filament voltage in the UF-14 is 55V, so that owners have to rewire the PS and mic circuits if they want to use a different tube, and end up losing the "vintage" market value of their U47. Sounds like we're all better off with our modded versions. From the schematics you posted, it looks like you ultimately kept the CF in your U47. Is that the case?

Just checked one of my old e-mails from Dave. The BV11's ratio is 5:1 (he is sourcing a dual bobbin 10:1 ratio tranny, which exactly emulates the tranny in the original C12, for those who prefer the CF out. Based on the listening tests you guys have cited, I might end up going that route.

Btw, the 1050 mod I'm doing will be with the PK47 and the BV8 transformer. Just got the Nady the other day, so am still in the process of testing it (changed out one of the zeners to get the noise down, the PS voltage was 180V!).

And so it goes,

-Wayne

Wayne,

Actually I did remove the CF in my 1050 ultimately to see what it would do and while it did lose some of the fuzziness, which could also be interpreted as veiled, the depth of the sound was amazing. Now I did change all the resisters to match the U47 schematic, except for the cathode resistor as I haven't found a 30ohm resister.

I will be getting the BV8 mini tranny from Peluso soon to replace the 2480 that I have in there now, to add some of that coloration and bottom end that I'm missing. The standard size BV8 may take some work to try to fit in the 1050.

Incidentally, Peluso has a T14 style tranny for the C12ish thing. I'm not sure that the BV11's 5:1 ratio will work without the CF. Not sure.

Lucio

Hey Lucio,

I like the idea of matching component values with the vintage version of a specific mic. Seems like you're getting excellent results with that approach.

My understanding is that the standard size BV8 fits in a 1050, but not in a 460 (which is why you need a 1050 body for the PK47 mod).

Interesting about the T14 style transformer from Peluso, since Cinemag has flagged their AKGT14 as obsolete (replacing it with the 2480). Wonder if this is the same tranny Dave Thomas is offering?

Dave has said that removing the CF requires a higher primary impedance than the BV11 can deliver. He notes, however, that the later M49 used the BV11 design.

Cheers,

-Wayne

John said that he uses the BV8 mini to fit easily into the short body mics, I pretty sure that the standard BV8 won't fit inside the metal cover in the mic. I was under the impression that it will take removing the cover and modifying the chassis of the 1050 to get the full sized BV8 to fit.

The thing to remember with Cinemag is that they try to improve upon the original designs, which is why they sat that the T14 is obsolete. But if you want to recreate the original sound then you want a vintage reproduction. So it depends on what you want in the end.

I figured that the BV11 was designed to work with the CF, so if you wanted to remove the CF you'd need a different tranny with a higher ratio.

Lucio

K, well I like to follow this thread and was a little leery of removing the CF but feel it's the thing to do now after reading these posts. I've got the 2480 as well as the cek-12 capsule. Is there a pic or schematic that shows exactly which pins are 6,7, and 8 on a 460? Are the pin holes on the tube base numbered? I can do the work no problem, just can't seem to find exactly which wires are which...

The pins are numbered on my 1050. Your best bet may be to trace the circuit....figure out what is going to pin 1 or 2....that'll insure you are working on the right part of the tube. The number upwards and in order from 1 on up so it should be pretty easy.

Michael

Thanks, I'll look at it when I get home. So to summarize for my simplified mind:
Disconnect the leads from socket pins 6, 7, 8 and tie the pins together and connect to pin 9 (which goes to ground).
Remove the wire to pin 5.
Attach one side of C8 to pin 1 (which also connects to R2)
Now the wires that USED to go to pins 6, 7, and 8, can they be simply cut off the board?
I think I'm getting it...

Update:
Ok I got brave and removed the cathode follower from my 460. I removed R8, connected C8 to pin 1, disconnected wires from 6,7, and 8 and tied them to 9 and disconnected the jumper between pin 4 and 5, leaving 4 connected but 5 not. I think this is it. Someone please chime in if it's not. I seem to have lost a bit of gain in the mic, is this normal? Is this what's called increased headroom? Sound over-all is "better" to me immediately and I've used it quite a bit modified but with the CF still in. More open, "truer", nicer on my ears anyways. I've yet to see how it translates into a recording.

You did it correctly and ,yes, an increase in headroom does reduce the gain some, but the biggest reduction is the change from a 12AX7 to a 12AY7. Your description of the sound is very good.

I will say that some the resistor changes that I did brought some of the gain back along with removing other parts.

Glad it's working for you. Let us know how the recordings go.

Lucio