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Mod Kyudan ![]() |
Who are you? What do you do? What is your background in music and recording? What kind of system/gear are you using? Where are you now and where would you like to go?
Dan Richards The Listening Sessions Pro Audio Consulting Direct Toll-Free (866) 409-3686 |
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Mod Kyudan ![]() |
I'll jump in...
I'm Dan. A lot of info about some of the stuff I've worked on is here. I started music lessons when I was a wee lad, and by the time I was in my teens I was actively playing trombone, guitar, bass, drums, piano, keyboards/synths. I got a PA system and ran a little mobile DJ service in the late 70's – which gave me some beginning sound-system experience. I first stepped into a real studio - 16 track 2" with MCI console – when I was 16. And I was hooked! I took an audio engineering course at that studio, and when it was over I just kept finding reasons to be there. I ended up working as a pro engineer in NYC and Copenhagen, DK in the 80's and 90's. I also managed studios. In '97 I just got burned out working in studios. I also wanted to build my own system. I've been working on doing that ever since. I do work occasionally in some of the commercial studios in the area when the fancy strikes me. And I have my studio designed in rack modules so I can quickly pack one up and take it to another studio or to a nice acoustic space for recording. These days I'm mostly concentrating on getting a body of songs I've written finished to place with artists. I have no desire to work in a "big studio". Been there, done that. I'd rather have my own humble - yet supremely powerful – private project studio to fuck around in and make music I want to make. Right now I'm running Nuendo 2.01 on a G4. And have some other stuff in the racks. Here's a pic below. This studio is very much "in-progress" and some of this gear is here for review - so the list is often changing. Monitors: KRK V8, Dynaudio AIR 15's, Computer: G4 w/ dual 1.42 GHz and 17" display Software: Nuendo 2.0, BIAS, WAVES, Logic Platinum. Left Rack: [ mic pre/converter rack ] Millenia TD-1 w/ HV-3 Extreme Isolation Headphones Sansamp PSA-1 guitar amp emulator Sansamp RBI bass amp emulator RME/Nuendo 8 I/O 96 - 8 channel AD converter Focusrite ISA 428 mic pre amps w/ AD converter card [ unit w/ 4 VU meters ] Millennia M-2B A Designs MP-2 tube mic pre Millenia TCL-2 Twincom Right Rack: [ synth/sampler/MIDI rack ] Benchmark DAC1 [ little black box] - stereo DA converter Akai S-1100 sampler Roland MPG-80 Super Jupiter Programmer Roland MKS-80 Super Jupiter Oberheim Matrix-6R Korg EX-8000 Korg Trinity V3 workstation keyboard Other rack stuff not shown: Mic pres: Millennia HV-3D, John Hardy M-1. Dan Richards The Listening Sessions Pro Audio Consulting Direct Toll-Free (866) 409-3686 |
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5th kyu |
Hey Dan. I like the planet alot but this place is cool as well! I use a vs 1880, event 20/20 bas monitors, charvel/jackson guitars a drum machine (roland dr 550)(man I hate drum machines)! I have a trap kit but no place to set it up at the moment due to soundproofing or lack thereof. I,ve been playin for about 20 years guitar, bass and drums. I like all kinds of music and record mainly demos. I'm working at transfering within the company I work for to become a media production specialist. I have no experience with digital video editing but it seems to work much like audio. I'm hoping that since I live in the middle of nowhere, not to many people have training in this field. They would probably live near a major city. Anyway thought I'd drop a line. Peace!
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5th kyu |
Oh, by the way, nice equipment list! One day I'll get some decent sounding pres and a good converter.
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Don't feed the bear...! 1st kyu |
I'm Bruce... been interested in sound and recording since I was a wee lad... started messing around with sound-on-sound recording in my teens, eventually discovering multitracking and slowly built-up my engineering skills, hoping to eventually open my own facility.
In '97, I finally got up the nerve to plonk the capital down and start something - and the 1st Blue Bear Sound was born.... In 2002/2003 Blue Bear Sound found a new home with a John Sayers-designed place and the fun really started! Now it's a question of building the business up and up! In my spare time I'm a reasonably-seasoned guitarist.......! Gear list is HERE.... More pics HERE... A shot of the control room: Bruce Valeriani Blue Bear Sound [This message was edited by Blue Bear Sound on 09-01-03 at 02:38 PM.] |
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5th kyu |
Bruce, I don't know what to say except "Holy shit! Man, that set up impressive!" But I must say I'm content with a Roland VS1880. Although I am soooo limited, I'm less limited than with my old 8 track casette and no tape hiss and such, but I miss the way things seemed to mesh better when mixing. How long have you been in the business?
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5th kyu |
Bruce, I don't know what to say except "Holy shit! Man, that set up impressive!" But I must say I'm content with a Roland VS1880. Although I am soooo limited, I'm less limited than with my old 8 track casette and no tape hiss and such, but I miss the way things seemed to mesh better when mixing. OOps. Bad memory.
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Fuck the purple banana! Nidan |
...but I'll try.
My name is Phil (Hi, Phil!). I'm about 3 hours west of Chicago. Music background-10 years of piano training, some clarinet and guitar training. I've been playing guitar for about 25 years, piano about the same (but I suck, because I don't take it seriously), and can PLAY a bunch of other stuff...not well, mind you, but I can make noise with them. Unfortunately, my day job has nothing to do with music, and it's a 60-70 hour/week gig. Plus travel. BUT, it pays for the studio, since the whole thing started as a place for me to goof around. Now it's changing. My studio is 50% my use, and 50% outside (but at this point, non-revenue) use. One guy that recorded his demo in my place is down in Nashville now, recording some stuff for distribution. I do a lot of recording for people from our church, including a compliation that the authors are hoping to have picked up by a publishing house. As more people ask to use it, I'm going to start charging-there's a dearth of studios in this area, so once I'm comfortable with MY level of ability, I'll start charging. The studio consists of: Computer: Athalon 1800+, 512M of RAM, 120G HD using Sonic Foundry products-Vegas and Sound Forge. I just picked up a copy of Cubase, and am trying to figure out if I like it. Front end: Seasound Solo and Expander (8x8 at 24/96) Boards: Mackie 24.4VLZ 24x4x1, Peavey Unity 2000 16x2 Monitors: Tannoy SBM's. Guitars and amps: '81 Gibson LP Custom silverburst, '84 Lotus LP Custom silverburst, Harmony Flying V, Epiphone EP-15, Washburn 12-string. Peavey Deuce amp. Ibanex PUE5 multi-effects pedal. Keyboards and synths: Yamaha B200, Casio junk keyboard, Yamaha TG-55, Retro AS-1 soft synth. Drums: Tweaked Hart Dynamics electronic set (2 zone snare, extra single zone pad, Yamaha bell cymbal and 18' ride added to base set) w/Alesis DM5 module. Mics: Studio Projects C1, ADK A51 type III (2), Oktava MC-012 (2). Marshall V67 enroute, AKG C3000 out on (semi) permanent loan. I have 2 57's and 2 58's that I donated to my church, with the caveat that I can use them if I need them. Just took everything out of the 14x14 room in the basement I call the studio, and re-arranged it. With tile floors and an unfinished ceiling, the room kinda sucks right now. That's the next project. It LOOKS cool, but it needs some work. Where's it going? Who knows? A year ago, I just wanted some software and a mic to record some of my own stuff. Now it's taking on a life of it's own. If I decide to get serious about it, I'm going to have to look at moving it into it's own space-my wife has very little tolerance for 2AM jam sessions that keep the kids awake. [This message was edited by H2oskiphil on 09-01-03 at 01:54 PM.] [This message was edited by H2oskiphil on 09-01-03 at 01:55 PM.] |
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Balance. Yondan |
Todd here. Got my first guitar at age 10 and have been playing now for over 30 years - where has the time gone?
Played in various bands in my teens. After high school I decided it might be interesting to join the Navy. Did that for four years and didn't play much during that time. Kinda hard to drag your guitar around on a ship. After the military, went to college and the playing picked up quite a bit. Bought new guitars, amps, etc. Around 1993, I started dabbling in recording. First recorder was a Yamaha MT120 4-track. Also bought an Alesis SR-16 drum machine to help hone the timing skills. After the Yamaha came a Tascam 464 Portastudio and a small Carvin mixer. I used that basic setup for several years with my band until a friend kinda turned me on to his Roland VS1680. The learning curve was pretty steep but I soon discovered I could alot of things with it that the old Tascam just wasn't capable of. The band cut an album at a local studio - all old school stuff like a big MCI console, U87's and Elam's, high end outboard gear, the whole nine yards. The end result sounded like ass. About that time I was getting tired of the whole band scene and left the band. We built a new house in 2000 and I decided after all these years I was going to have a rehearsal/studio space so I built a separate building on our property just for that - floating floors, double layers of drywall hung on R-channel, separate control room, etc. Had it not been for that horrible sounding album, I probably never would have gotten the itch to dealve deeper into recording. It's become my goal (obsession is probably more accurate) to turn out good sounding recordings that rival what the "pro" studios in our area are churning out. I feel I'm still on the steep end of the learning curve, but my humble little shop is slowly gaining a growing list of loyal clients who seem to like what I do for them. I'm no longer a beginner, but I'm definitely not pro yet either. I basically think of myself as still being a home recordist, but with great aspirations. Where I'd like to go from here? At present, this is more than a hobby, but less than a profession. Don't know if it'll ever be enough of a paying business to do it full time (not in this market anyway), but I do plan on upgrading gear and continuing to hone the skills. I've outgrown my Roland 1880 and am presently trying to figure out what direction to take gear-wise. Looking for either a good, small format recording console and HD recorder, or maybe a Mackie D8B rig with HD. Pics and some info on my place are here. |
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6th kyu |
I started performing in the early 60's in Chicago and then moved to northern california where I stepped into the just erupting folk music boom. I performed with people like Malvina Reynolds (Little Boxes), Ramblin' Jack Elliot, Bola Sete, and a ton of local artists like Billy Roberts (Hey Joe), Larry Vargo, Them Other Pluckers, Kate Wolf and eventually did an album on Fantasy Records when they still were located in San Francisco. I was in the middle of the whole folk-rock thing as it emerged with the Jefferson Airplane and Lamb and which eventually blossomed into a full-on rock scene, the summer of love and all that. I recorded at Golden Gate with Leo De Gar Kulka and at the Record Plant in Sausalito,where there were several active performing scenes. I toured across the country and did some recording at CBS studios in chicago.
All the while I was becoming more and more interested in the recording process and started messing around with the famous tascam 4 track machines which brought synchronous recording to the masses. I did gigs with Janis Joplin and the YoungBloods and did a concert with David Carradine. All the while I was writing songs and trying to keep going as the scene shifted further and further away from folk to rock and then hard rock and then speed rock and then metal and then rap and i ended up making my living playing 5 night a weekers in restaurant lounges, entertaining people waiting to eat, surely the surliest audience to deal with in the whole scheme of things. Eventually I just plain old burned out on these audiences and found myself doing other things to make ends meet, and performing far less frequently but in better situations. Meanwhile, during all this I kept pitching various "labels" and kept being told " No!". Which drove me further toward my own studio and promised a glimmer of hope, what with the coming of the world wide web and all. So now I still have a tascam 3340 as well as a Fostex 8 track reel to reel, as well as a VS 1680 and a minidisc setup, all of which I use to accomplish different tasks. I've assembled a wonderful array of mics and outboard gear over time, and have a pro-tools set-up which I have yet to use. I've given up entirely on the commercial music scene as far as them wanting anything at all to do with me, and as I watched the MTV awards the other night, I felt entirely despondent and depressed by what corporations want us to buy. I continue to pursue recording for myself and others, and never seem to have enough time to devote to it, but still keep performing and dreaming of the day that others will think what I'm doing merits listening. I don't know if this is what you had in mind when you posted your question, but this seems to be what I have to say. So I just keep listening toward the future.......with an ear to the past, and enjoy the studio process no end, as well as exchanging histories and ideas with other recordists around the world. Igor |
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Voice actor 5th kyu |
I first appeared on radio in 1971, on the NBC radio network. I spent time as a rock DJ in Philly in the 80's, and I did my last show in 1990. I took several years off to work on cars and learn to fly. I spent a year flying jets, and met some interesting people. I was laid off from my jet job a few months ago.
Now, I am returning to voice over work, which I had used to supplement my income while I worked as a flight instructor. At this point I am working at marketing myself for voice and on camera work every day. I recorded a new VO demo at Full House in NYC, and I have plans to record a second demo focusing on narration. I must be doing something right, since I had offers almost instantly from two agents in Philly, and interest from another in NY. I am completing a small home setup using a PC and Audition, along with an Octava 319 and Echo Mia which I purchased at Guitar Center. I need to buy the mic pre and a stand, and I'll be up and running. My purpose is to be able to record scripts for out of town clients in lieu of in-person auditions, and send out an MP3 file to those folks. ISDN may be down ther road for me, depending on how well this modest investment pays off. Nice studio, Dan. "Wait a minute. Tom flys Britney Spears and I'm flying Madelaine Albright?" |
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Balance. Yondan |
Dot -
I see you've got the 428 with the digital I/O card. I just got the digital card for my 428 couple of days ago and would be interested in your opinion of how the converters sound. So far, I've been very pleased with the analog section but will be testing the digital outs soon. |
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Yondan |
I've been playing guitar for the last 27 years. I got in to home recording 18 months ago after toying around with Cakewalk at a friend's house. I bought Roland's studio pack and Sonar to start out with. After about a six month learning curve I finally started getting it together. My equiptment list is:
Sonar 1.x-Lots of plug-ins The Roland Studio pack (VM-3100pro & RSP card) M-Audio Studiophile SP-5B's (hate 'em) AKG K-44 headphones (2)SM 57's (1)SM 58 (1)KSM-27 (1)Oktava MC-12 Aphex 107 Tubessence Presonus Blue Tube Midiman Oxygen 8 USB keyboard '79 Gibson LP, '91 Fender Strat plus '52 Tele re-issue, '76 Martin D-35, Peavey Bass '67 Super Reverb, mid 70's Ampeg V-4, Early 60's Ampeg Reverberocket II 70's Fender champ, Sansamp GT-1 Lots of stomp boxes. I have a huge wish list. Better monitors and additional mics are at the top of it. I mainly record original stuff and demo's for my band. I dig up a wealth of recording info on the web and found this site in the process.Great site Dot, Thanks for hosting it. -Rocky- |
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Schizophreniac Sandan |
My name is Sean, I'm 22 years old and I'm a gearaholic...
I've been playing drums and guitar for over 6 1/2 years. I've dabbled in bass and keyboards over the years, but I never was as serious about them as I was with the drums and guitar. I got into recording over 3 years ago. I recorded a 3 song demo CD of my old band for my senior project in high school and ever since then, it's been an ever growing obsession! BTW, here is one of the songs I did for my senior project: http://www.artistcollaboration.com/~tekker/Steadfast%20-%20Is%20This%20The%20Way.MP3 I would like to one day be able to do recording as a living, but I'm taking a 2 year electronics EET degree at a local community college (for starters, I have no idea what I'm gonna do from there) just in case... Recording & PA Stuff Software: Magix Samplitude Producer 6.04 & Cakewalk Pro Audio 9 Soundcards: Aardvark Direct Pro & Turtle Beach Montego Monitors: Aiaw CD player speakers (I've been trying to save up for a set of Yorkville monitors forever, but being poor college student hasn't helped matters any! Mixer: Behringer MX1602 Numerous plugins including Waves, Voxengo, and LOTS of free effects plugins. Mics: Rode NT2, AKG D112, Radio Shack 33-3032 (4x), and a Radio Shack small diaphram condensor mic (which actually sounds pretty good for a Radio Shack mic Mackie 1400i power amp Audio Centron PA speakers Guitar Stuff Cort CL 1000 DeArmond M-65c Washburn Double Cutaway Lyon (by Washburn) Rogue Strat Fender Acoustic (it's actually my sister's but she never plays it! Yamaha G-65a classical/spanish guitar DeArmond Pilot V - 5 string bass Digitech RP14 effects pedal Zoom 505 effects pedal DOD Grind It guitar amp Drum Stuff Tama Rockstar drumset Sunlite drumset Yamaha Snare Sunlite Piccolo snare Sabian hi-hat & ride Piaste crash Sabian spash Zildjian china Several other cracked cymbals (which I only use for practice) There, that's all I can think of that's actually worth mentioning... lol! -tkr ______________________________ 'Cause I don't wanna read the book, I'll watch the movie. |
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5th kyu |
Well, it all started out as a hobby and now I'm closer to full time, more than ever.
I started writing songs in the early 80's on a little Casio SK-1. Poems and melodies were all I could do back then but it was a major release for me as my family was always in termoil. To skip some details a bit, I ended up by the late 80's with a Fostex 4-track and 3 bigger Casio keyboards and was just starting realize how much fun I was having. I got into a band and we went to record a demo at a studio not far from where we lived. While the experience was fun, the product we ended up with was not even good enough to be called a DEMO, in my eyes. We spent $1000 for 3 songs and I was very unhappy. We were all unhappy. So, I went to Radio Shack and bought as many Mics as I could and we gave it a go in the drummers basement. The results were stunning and far better than all the money we had wasted at the other studio. It was at that point that I set out to build a studio so, what ever band I was in, would have a great product to hand out to bars and fans. When I moved to a house with a basement, I thought having a studio with seperate rooms and some better gear would make my band ready for radio. Well, the band broke up and I was on my own and getting requests from others on where all our stuff was recorded so I decided to help some friends out and play producer\engineer. Needless to say, I fell in love. The capper to all this was the adoption of my son and the cost of daycare. My wife would be working only to spend all her paycheck on daycare. We decided she would stay home and I would open the studio to make up the income. It worked and here I am. All word of mouth so far, 82 plus clients in the past 4 years and still growinig. I love this stuff. Here's my setup. My Music - www.mp3.com/johnny_geib |
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5th kyu |
My name is Jeff and I've been a guitarist for 25 years (or since I first saw Ace Frehley blow up his guitar during "Shock Me" during the mid-late 70's).
I began mult-tracking in the early 90's with a Tascam TSR-8 1/2" machine and a Mackie 1604 desk. Now I run the following set-up. Roland VS-2480 Mackie HR-824's Apogee Rosetta Yamaha Effects Studio Projects C1 Ehrin Anthony Custom Guitars Gary Levinson Blade Guitars Lakland Basses Line 6 Amplification Inspirations: Guitar - Dann Huff Recording - Mutt Lange/Dann Huff Wish List: Either an Avalon 737 or a Focurite ISA220. Thanks.... |
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Yondan |
Hello, I'm Chris-also from S.C.
I'm a guitarist & recording is mostly just a hobby. Fresh out of high school, I attended the Recording Workshop in Ohio where I got to play around with some really cool gear & learn a little bit about recording. A few years later, I worked for about a year at a small New Orleans project studio. I then moved back home to Charleston & got a 'real job'- gave up recording for about 10 years. Recently the band I'm in decided to try some home recording & I got the bug again. Things are different now than they were 10 years ago, but I've been learning (and re-learning) & trying to keep up with my gear lust on a limited budget. I have recorded a demo for our band, and demos for 2 other local bands. Eventually, I'd like to have a full project studio & continue to do demos & such. Currently this is the gear I'm using: Roland VS880 M-audio Delta sound cards Vegas, Sound Forge & Cool Edit Pro Seck 18 ch 8 buss mixer Joe meek vc3q DMP-3 SP B3 MXL V67 & 2 603's sm57's 2 ecm8000's shure beta 52 m-audio sp5b's for monitoring My next purchase will probably be a quality dynamic mic (Beyer or Sennheiser) |
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Yondan |
i look at some of these studio rigs, and i have drool running down my chin..........
LOL my little studio is really a bedroom setup..... a roland vs880ex 8 track, an ART DPS pre and convertor, a little table top dbx compressor..... (1) at4033, (1) sm57, a pair of krk rokits and a hafler amp, and my latest toy, a POD XT, which, after years of tubedom, i'm learning to get some pretty neat tones out of..... get the most, out of the least. gonzo-x |
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Semi-Professional Shodan |
I started out playing the violin when I was 4. I got a regular high school diploma plus a diploma from the Eastman School of Music in violin performance, and along the way, I learned a bunch of other instruments to varying degrees of proficiency. Plus I sang. Constantly, to hear my mother tell it.
My best friend and I made a joke punk band when we were in high school called 'The Plague', and he and I started writing and recording a whole series of joke punk songs with titles like 'I Like Pain', 'We Need Help', 'Mucus', etc, on his dad's Tascam reel-to-reel with sound on sound. We'd swap off duties - I'd play drums and he'd sing and play guitar, then on the second track he'd play bass and I'd sing and play guitar. Or whatever. We did this for a year, every week, before we realized we could try writing not-joke songs too. I went to college in New York, because when I was a kid (I was born in 1961), the music that resonated with me most was folk music. There was something about the sound that appealed to me intensely, and still does. I wanted to be where that music was happening, and it all seemed to come from Greenwich Village. So eventually I went down to the folk clubs in Greenwich Village, got some gigs playing my own stuff, and started meeting people - and then I started getting hired to play bass, or guitar, or sing, for other people at their live appearances or on their records. Over time, I've probably played or sung (or both) on over 50 albums, mainly by singer-songwriters you've never heard of, including: * Fast Folk - A Community of Singers & Songwriters on Smithsonian/Folkways (I played on one track on this collection, though I've been on a number of Fast Folk records); * Lillie Palmer - The Butterfly Zone (I'm very proud of this record - I played mostly bass on it, but also a little guitar and I sang some backups too); * Louise Taylor - Ruby Shoes (guitar); * Jack Hardy - Bandolier; Omens; The Hunter (guitar mostly, and I sang) * Fatwall Jack - The Girl Next Door (bass, plus this record contains the first song of mine ever to be put on a record - though I didn't get to sing it. Samples of all that stuff can be heard at Amazon.com. I finally bought a cassette 4-track of my own in 1991 as an attempt to get more serious about writing and recording my own songs. This, over time, gave way to a used Roland VS-1680 about a year and a half ago. I have some middle-of-the-road gear, including Mackie 824 monitors, a bunch of AT mics (a 4050, a 4033, a 3035 and a couple of SDs), an Allen & Heath board and an RNP, a dedicated studio computer with Sonar on it, and assorted not-terribly-expensive effects and outboard gear. My goals still include trying to work on my own stuff - someday, I'd like to release a record of my own, just because.... But I've become much more interested in being a better engineer, and I want to produce - and in fact, I'm getting my first production credit (as co-producer) on a record I've worked on for a New Bedford-based singer-songwriter for the past 9 months that will hopefully be released before I die. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. My songs |
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5th kyu |
Hey everyone.
I'm Kent (kents) Smith and I've been around on a few boards since '99 when I started recording. I'm a regular day-job guy in Telecom (Richardson Texas) with a passion for music. I've been playing guitar for some 15 years. At my wife's encouragement, I bought some recording gear back in '99 with the express goal of recording a song for my then-newborn son. That was in fact my first recording and the objective was met. In '01 we had twin girls - hence the impetus for writing yet another song and getting it on tape. Did that too. Meanwhile, my circle of musical friends has expanded with my modest little setup. I had the opportunity to work sound for a little band locally and enjoyed that. I was invited to join the band (owning instruments does that for ya) and now we record as a group in addition to my own writing / recording adventures. We are working on an album of original material at this time. No real aspirations of going commercial - just a shared interest in music driving a group of middle-aged white guys with otherwise established lives in corporate america. I've emassed a bit of gear over these last 4 years; Roland VS-1880 Multi-track recorder 1 Roland VS-1880 Travel Case 1 Roland/Plextor CDR-II CD Burner 1 Midas Venice 320 Console 1 Roland VSF8 Effects card 2 Studio Covers Dust Covers for Roland equipment 1 Roland DS90A Monitors 2 dbx 286A Mic preamplifier 2 dbx 1066 2-channel compressor 1 TL Audio VP-1 Mic preamplifier 2 TC Electronic M One XL 1 Behringer HA-4600 Headphone Distribution amp 1 Sony MDR V900 studio headphones 1 Sony consumer headphones 1 SKB 8U rack 1 Shure SM58 Vocal Microphone 1 Shure SM57 Instrument Microphone 2 Shure KSM32 Condensor Microphone 1 Shure SM81 Condensor Microphone 1 Neumann KM184 Condensor Microphone 2 AKG C1000S Condensor Microphone 1 AKG C451B Condensor Microphone 1 Fender AmSer Hardtail Sunburst Stratocaster - 2003 Fender JapStrat - OLY White - 1986 Fender Hot Rod Deluxe 40w Amp Fender AmSer Jazz Bass Teal Green Metallic Fender Bassman 100 Bass Amp Martin HD-28 Acoustic Guitar Ovation Electric / Acoustic Guitar Elite Std #6778 Peavey Backstage 50 50w amp Boss ME-50 Multi-Effect Boss TU-12 Tuner Boss JamStation JS-5 Sorry 'bout any formatting goobs in this post. Kent |
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