Hi folks,

I'm going to be doing a small accoustic set in a weeks time, which will probably just consist of me on vocals and my friend on accoustic guitar (maybe somone on bongos/congas or hi-hat and snare). Some of the songs will use an electric accoustic, but we'd like to use a nylon strung accoustic for one or two of the numbers.

This would require miking up and I'd like some tips please. Should I use one or two mics? Do the same principles apply to recording AG in the studio? I have plenty of mics to use, but mostly condensers. The only dynamic mics I have are 2 x AKG D25's, which I don't think will suit.

Thanks a lot.

Kane,

Depends on how much room you have. Is someone else running sound for you? I think I'd use just one mic though. Less hassles, as phase could be a problem. Set up at home and try different mics on the guitar in question. Find the position where you get the best overall balance of the guitar. I'd use a condensor if feedback isn't going to be a problem. This has worked well for me.

Joel

Cheers Joel,

The PA will only be small and my friend will be on the board. Would you suggest a hyper cardoid pattern to minimise the chance of feedback etc? What about LDC verses SDC?

I was thinking I'd try my Electrovoice RE1000. It has a 'super cardoid' pick up and it's a 3/4" diaphram, with good transient response.

Kane, you often seem to know a lot about some cool gear, so I'm guessing you know alot about live sound. This answer, however, assumes you might not. So, feel free to ingore the hell out of it!

There are a lot of factors to consider:

1. What kind of monitoring is used - monitor placement can greatly affect where and how you can mic the guitar. I was micing a nylon string last weekend that would suddenly go into feedback. After a while I realized that, if he turned just right, the sound hole aimed more directly at the mic and the guitar picked up the monitor and .....hmmmmmmmMMMMMMMM!!!!! Condensors can be used, but they make monitor/feedback issues harder to control.

2. Do you have a moving target? I regularly mic this one guy with 2 mics, phase be damned. When he gets excited, he lifts up and takes the guitar out of any sort of sweet spot. The second mic is my safety net.

3. What other sounds will you have to worry about bleeding in? Are you playing the guitar in question? You might have to worry about phase between the vocal mic and the guitar mic.

4. What is the environment? Are you on an open stage, backed up against a wall or in a corner. If in a corner, my favorite advice is, "Refuse to play". Sound is awful in a corner. If you're close to a wall, its just like in the studio = untreated wall is very bad.

Recommends - If possible, go try the guitar out in the environment. Use your studio ears to figure out where your sweet-spots problems are.

If at all possible, monitor with earbuds. Sometimes, in a hall, a small group doesn't even need monitoring.

If you don't monitor, or can keep monitors really low, a condensor can lessen problems from a moving guitarist.

Its hard to recommend a mic for a live setting without knowing more about the environment. Its just not like a nice controlled studio space. For dynamics, I've used and liked, an sm-57, m201, m88, Sennheiser 845 and m160 or m260 ribbons. For condensor, I've only used an Octava mc012, but it did sound really good.

Hope some parts of that are helpful to you.

Thanks for that.

I don't really know a lot about live recording and all that info was cool!

Kane, I've done more live sound work this year than studio work. I would say with live sound think a) simplicity and b) feedback


You want as few mics up there as possible, so definitely just a single mic--forget stereo mic'ing. At soundcheck I'd try a SDC and see if that works. If your soundguy rang out the monitors you might be OK. If that's no beans....seriously man, an SM57. Though something hyper/supercardioid would be suitable if the monitor is at an angle to the guitar (off axis to the rear sides of the mic), if the monitor is pointing straight at the rear of the mic, you would of course want cardioid.


Based on my experience with LDC on stage, I'd say you can try at your own risk--but on a small stage you'll most likely get mediocre sound and feedback if you have any monitors up there.

when playing in the auditorium in the school I teach in, I use an sm-57, or sm-58 into the p.a., but I am interested in trying one of these. Anybody try them?
http://www.deanmarkley.com/Pickups/ProMag.shtml
they seem easy to pop in and I would think it sounds good.

evt

The soundhole PUs IME don't sound at all natural, but then neither do under saddle piezos. It's a bummer when the soundhole PUs get knocked out of the soundhole in the middle of a song though. I ran an open mic for a while and saw that happen from time to time. Easy to snag the cord that hangs out of the soundhole--unless you run the jack out through the endpin, which is sort of a semi-permanent thing.

If you're not an aggressive player and it's just an occasional thing, for $90 they're fine. But if a mic is already working fine, no big reason to change IMHO...

You could try one of those mini gooseneck clip on condensers like the Audio Technicas, they retain relative position no matter what.

I hate the sound of piezos live and when you hear a Takamine it's like nails on a blackboard. But I heard Steve Dawson of Zubot and Dawson at a steel guitar festival and he used Sunrises through a
Fender Deluxe reverb wow, a live sound that was worth the price of admission. For a loud noisy club that was it. For a soft seater a good condenser.

I just recently bought a Sunrise pickup. I have fooled around with it for a couple hours trying to EQ out the nastiness that makes an acoustic sound more like an electric guitar. I had some success but I have never gotten close to something that sounds acceptable to me.

Hi,
I'm obsessing over Mama Bear... Mama bear is creating quite a buzz in acoustic guitar forums. The makers are Seymour Duncan and Rick Turner (the co-founder of Alembic).
http://www.d-tar.com/about.shtml

I was thinking of getting a dean markley pickup http://www.deanmarkley.com/Pickups/ProMag.shtml
and the Mama Bear. I think it would sound awesome. I would try it in the studio for recording using the dean markley pickup through mama bear into one track and use a sp b1 (or another condensor) to mic the guitar as well and blend the two.

I would think for live a pickup through this mama bear has got to sound good. I was first looking into the fishman aura acoustic blender: http://www.fishmanaura.com/
Which looks cool, and if you get it, you could send it to them to adjust to create settings specifically catered to whatever guitar you tell them you are using. But, I have read mixed reviews about it.
And, then I ran into the Mama Bear which seems to be getting excellent reviews.

evt

OT:

quote:

Originally posted by josan:
But I heard Steve Dawson of Zubot and Dawson at a steel guitar festival and he used Sunrises through a Fender Deluxe reverb wow, a live sound that was worth the price of admission.

Man, that Jesse Zubot is an animal on the fiddle. No wonder he gets so many studio gigs around town.

http://www.blackhenmusic.com/