HI

I need good live speakers for producing a powerfull and clear reproduction of live vocals & keyboards, With Drums/Guitar/Bass being played very loud (heavy metal) in a 7 meters X 4 meters unsoundproofed room.

As I now have a Phonic 24MKII I asked Phonic, they recommended (ofcourse they would recommend Phonic), IMP15 speakers and a MAX2500 Power amplifier, how do they sound ?

Cheers !
Mike

big question with lots of red flags...not much of a recording question but I'm qualified to answer.
I'd have to ask some questions, and make some comments before simply suggesting equipment.
-is this just a rehearsal sound system?
-that's a really small room, at a certain point if you don't keep the band's volume down, there won't be a lot of gear solutions to get a "powerful and clear reproduction" of anything. it's simple sound physics.
-that power amp looks reasonable; 500 watts at 8 ohms. Phonic equipment hasn't been considered one of the better PA equipment brands, although they've been working on their products trying to improve the reliability.
-often monitor wedges are a better choice for rehearsal, espe cially when you can use them at gigs too.
-you're not mic'ing anything except vocals, and also running Keys DI into the system?
-if you want to gig with this equipment I'd get the best possible spoeakers you can afford. That way you won't have to sell them when you realize you need a better sound or want to add to your system.

Yeah def. red flags. You guys are going to have to learn to balance out your levels better--no matter the genre--and if you can damp the walls of the room this will help.

I agree with Kel that monitors will work better and get the best you can afford especially if you're going to be thrashing it with high SPL in a small room and probably some clipped signals. Kel is also right that the simple physics of what you're looking to do is going to be a problem.

Phonic is pretty low-end stuff--read: not very durable, not very clean, and not the kind of thing I'd want to run super hard, especially the amps. The QSC RMX line of amps are very robust and very good at the pricepoint. Always get more power that you need so you have better headroom...but again, for clean and clear you'll want to start at the source and consider the limitations of your practice space.

yea, good call. the QSC RMX is bulletproof and also easily available used. the 1450 would be my first suggestion. You can find them for around $250 used. For speaks on the lower end I'd suggest the Yamaha ClubV series. They sound better than any MI grade cab in their price range, don't cost a lot, and are hard to blow up. the monitors and mains are identical so you might look at monitors that can be employed as mains on stands. The SM112V is around $299-ish each.

Agreed on the 1450, IMHO superior in build and reliability to the lower end Crown stuff and anything Mackie. Agreed on Club V, or used Yorkville or JBL MPros or better could be good too (avoid the old JBL SF series crap and whatever it's been replaced with).

Also to get the best gain before feedback and cleaner sound I'd recommend a 30 band graphic EQ in the rig so you can ring and cut hot frequencies out of your room. This can be cheaply obtained.

yea, Yorkies, Mpro( expensive though), Y Club series. Avoid JBL JRX. Peavey has some really nice stuff too.

Yeah I almost forgot Peavey! Far as the MPros, might be able to find a used deal.

small world:
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1927982

Hahahaha, damn Kel, we're "on" today


I cut my teeth in the HC Live Sound forum back in the day...haven't been there in ages, have come a long way since I was there!

yea, I've poked in from time to time. too busy these days, except for the past few, to spend much time there.

thanks for the replies guys, I've been looking around alot today, too much choice, my head is spinning.

What I could really use is some one who knows about speakers to do an ebay.co.uk search for me =p (assuming I can pick them up from any where in the UK, but idially London). Speakers seem to be a hell of alot cheaper second hand.

No JBL Mpros for sale on ebay.co.uk, or Peavey SP series, I found some used JBL MS112s, what do you think of those ?

Cheers
Mike

take a look at these:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Yamaha-PA-DJ-Speakers-400-watt_W0...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
these not bad:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PAIR-OF-JBL-15-EON-P-A-SPEAKERS-M...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

these not bad:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Peavey-Impulse-1012-Full-Range-Sp...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Thanks again for your reply, and the help ebaying speakers !

I've just read the Black Widow bass drivers are terrible, do you agree?

If that's the case i'll prolly stick out for some Yamaha Club V's with Eminence ones.

Do you think the Yamaha ones in the link you gave are Club V's ?

Cheers
Mike

Black Widow speakers are just fine.

Club series IV are great too. They have the 1/4" inputs only. the Vs have 1/4 and Speakons.

I have the Yamaha 115 Club V's. I did a lot of research and in the bang for the buck they came out on top. FWIW...I like 'em a lot.

Personally I'd avoid used JBL EONs for questions of reliability. They sure did pop up at my tech's shop a lot.

Ditto, EON's suck! Used or not.The ones I've used sounded very good but didn't last long.

the ones listed in the ebay UK were the newer black passive models, which are just fine. JBL also sells a lot of them so consequently more will be in for Repair. We used to see a lot of Peavey into our shop, but there was also 3:1 Peavey over everything else so in reality their reliability was maybe better than others. And pilot error is probably more responsible for most issues. If there are more users. there will be more problems..

Yeah they were all used by metal bands

Didn't catch that they were passive--thanks for the correction! I still personally wouldn't get active ones, JMHO.

Thanks, I still may get those Eons (with a cheaper offer as they didn't sell the first time for him), if I don't win the JBL MS112s.

Or the JBL 1350P Limited Edition Sound Power Series, or some Yamaha stage V's.

To keep you updated (as you seem interested =))i'll paste what I've been writing on Harmony central as well.


"Thanks again for the great suggestions.

The room is also my living room, though i'de cover it in sound proofing with out hesitation my girlfriend may object =p

I think i'll be able to persuade her to let me have some bass traps at the very least, as they're obviously so stylish

I going to bid on some JBL MS112s, if I will those for the amount I want to i'll be very happy, if not those i'll go for some banged up 15" Eons, they're quite robust right ? The guy says all damage is only cosmetic and that the Horns / Speakers are still working perfectly.

Would you trust buying used 15" Eons ?

If not those than maybe some: JBL 1350P Limited Edition Sound Power Series.

WHch would you go for out of those 3 ?"

---------------------------------

"Heh yeah great idea soul-x, i've been showing my girlfriend some nice tapestries I found on google to cover up most of the most reflective wall (A 100% mirror wall behind the drumkit, with wallpaper over most of it), we've decided on book cases filled with books for the corners as well as bass traps under a couple of tables which are in the corners at the moment.

We already have a big couch in there and rugs on the floor. She likes the idea of thick curtains with folds as well.

Would bass traps on the ceiling corners make a big difference as well ? If I can find some cream ones they are a possbility, or a way to colour them cream with out losing the sound absorbing property.

Cheers !
Mike"

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We have a no smoking rule in the house already, so fire shouldn't be a problem, unless the power amp decides to catch fire, I had that happen when I was 17 in a rehearsal studio I worked in, huge noise, scary stuff. There was a really terrible band playing at the time so I don't blame it.