JoeJoeMan
I personally think you're kinda lucky that you posted on this forum. I doubt you would have gotten as far as you have in this thread, in another forum. (By that I mean, positive encouragement).

Anyway, when I read your last post, I cannot help but think....perhaps you need to interact with other musicians more. Just my thoughts.

quote:

Even in the local music scene I'm a bit of an outsider, for what reason I'm not quite sure, I'm certainly not as out spoken or as critical as I am on here, quite the contrary, I know the politics of the local music scene, you never wanna' get labeled as an asshole, but recently a memeber a local band quit and left a hole for a guitar player, I fit the bill, infact I was about the only choice, and was well know by the band members, so I felt it odd when they recruited a friend of mine whom is basicaly still a beginner, a talented one, but had relatively little experience, certainly not the same caliber as me, and I had even help him along over that last few years teaching him things and jamming, anyway I though it odd they never so much as asked me if I'd be intereseted, I never said anything and I encourgage my friend who got the gig, but I thought it very odd indeed.

Odd? sounds like you are disappointed to me.

Perhaps if you had invited one or two of these others (from the band) into your "space" as an equal they may have thought differently when it came time to hire?

quote:

It is not always easy to tell what is lacking in one's own recordings.

And it's even harder when you are not open to taking input from people who may even not be "as good as you are". In fact, no matter how much you try, your voice may not suit your music at all. But until you try making the music with someone else...you'll never know. Some songs I've written, I only put scratch vocals on, because I know this singer.....

quote:

When I do get enough nerve together to post something, I won't use my current phoney name but come back as a real person, hopefully no one will ever be the wiser....

cool - look forward to hearing it

quote:

I'm really not the ass hole I come off to be sometimes....

fair enough...I had to go back and read your first post though, just to make sure



Tube

Yeah JoeJoe - I also think you're fortunate to have come across our little forum. Like Doug, of course, I don't personally believe in anonymity for myself. I say what I like. It's not that I don't care what people may think of me, I do, but I personally don't believe in hiding behind something, like a name. It never made any sene to me, unless I thought I'd be so inflammatory someone would seek me ut to murder me. My name keeps me honest, but also: I don't know anyone's name anyway. What difference is it whether your name is Hob12349 or Bill Bliggs? It's still you whose type I'm reading.

I think you'll generally find a bunch of caring people here. Not always. Kind of like the real world. But it'd be nice to share some music. It's not a competition festival. Or not. I don't generally post my music either. I've recorded a bunch of CDs, although not recently. So I don't generally feel the need. You know? My music's been out there, somewhere. Been reviewed distributed and bought. But it's a great way of getting your feet wet.

The only way you can get better, is to pratctice and perform. Doug said that, right? Well it's true. Part of getting better by performing, is this little thing, kind of a subset, which is anxiety about what "others" may think. It might be hard but you gotta try to get over it.

TubeDrive, yup perhaps I do have to interact with other musicians more, it's not that I'm a loner, I'm actually pretty social, once a week there is a local jam in town or which I regularly attend.
Actually not getting asked into that band was fine by me, I had no desire to join it anyway, I was justing saying that it was odd that no one ever approached me about it. Anyway its alot about politics and the other player is better friends with the band, basicaly the band based their decision on who they liked better not who was a better musician, and hey that's cool by me.
I do get out and play, bands, solo over the years, at the same time I'm kind of private, I really don't like being recognized on the street and having someone I don't know come up and say..."hey weren't you the lead player I saw, dah dah dah".... Also I don't do the "hey let's blow a doobie" with the other musicians, or do the usual social sucking up necessary in the local music scene, not that I'm not social. Yea so in that sense it is my fault.
Anyway, animity is fun, course that is nothing new many writters have done it over the years.
I'm not sure I would ever offer a CD out to the public if I did come up with a good one, espeicialy with my real name, for one thing you're putting yourself on the line, but more importantly, if someone dislikes or completely loves the CD, I'd hate to standing in line at some check out counter, for example, and have someone I don't know glancing at me and thinking to themselves..."he's the guy on the CD", call me silly but I have no desire for recognition. I just want to play music. Even when I was younger I wanted to perform so that I could make some money, but not be recognized.
In fact in my other life of JoeJoe-non-musician, with people I work with or associate with, I never bring up the fact that I play music or have group that gigs around, I'm just as happy that they don't know it. Occasionaly someone will see me playing that I've know for years but they never knew I played in bars or even played anything, which is kind of an awkward situation for me, mostly I wear my glasses on stage and pull my hat low down over my brow, it makes me look cool plus hopefully no one will recognize who I really am. Call me sill but......such is life
Well if I ever get my act together I will post some tunes and I'm sure get some good advice here.
Sorry if I hand out some shit, it's mostly done just to hand out some shit and make fun of things, like musicians, I am a bit of a prankster, which got me in a lot of trouble as a kid and still occasionly does. And I think I'm ready to get my ass kicked off this forum in another thread, not sure if anyone has put two and two together yet but............you gotta' love this internet thing,
thanks guys I appreciate all the feed back on your end, I feel like a made a few new friends, ah and some new enemies too................

If you work and collaborate with other people, then I'm not talking to you.
So, what's your story? Do you play well with others? Or are you a hermit. And if so - why?

Dan Richards

I studied violin, played bass in rock bands, and then left it pretty much all behind for 35 years or so as I pursued other things in life, happy to strum a guitar now and then. Today, I try to have fun with music, which I do. It's a hobby. Nothing more. Putting songs together is more fun than just playing now and then - it's much more engrossing, just the ticket for me at this point in my life, keeping me involved with music. I try to record as well as I can, given a low budget, limited recording experience and all. I consider some tracks to be placeholders - maybe I can get my friend Doug to lay down a sax solo to replace the one I did with a Motif and PLG board, or maybe Ed to redo the drums I played. Until then, I'll just keep on modestly doing what I do. I don't seek your company nor your solace. I don't post my music to pain your ears. I've just hoped to learn a thing or two and I appreciate this forum as a place to do that. Your posts are a big part of that, so thanks.

Steve

Guitars, basses, B-3/122, Motif w/ PLG-150VL, drum kit, tube amps, effects, recording gear, too much fun.

I ran across this quote today and it made me think of this thread.

"To practice any art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow. So do it." Vonnegut Jr.

JoeJoeMan
In fact in my other life of JoeJoe-non-musician, with people I work with or associate with, I never bring up the fact that I play music or have group that gigs around, I'm just as happy that they don't know it

You can believe THAT. I didn't know it. And you can also believe his bragging about his anatomy.

So after all these threads, has anybody gone back and re-read DOT's first post???

This whole time, Dan is reading this thread and thinking "Dance puppets, dance"... Good job stirring up the pot on this one!!

I don't think Dan's intention was to slam home recording and those doing it...I thought that on the first read, but on the second not-so much.

Why no response Dan (DOT)???? Come on man, don't be a chicken shit, start the fight and then run -- that ain't very American of you

quote:

Originally posted by Sparky:
This whole time, Dan is reading this thread and thinking "Dance puppets, dance"... Good job stirring up the pot on this one!!

Why no response Dan (DOT)????

I think you answered your own question

if it was good enough for todd rundgren, it's good enough for me.

funny some of these old threads have been peeking their heads up lately...

thanks "wykdbytch" you just made me waste a good half hour or so at work re-reading all this stuff

t

.

quote:

So, what's your story? Do you play well with others? Or are you a hermit. And if so - why?

I used to play more with others. Now, the guys I played with are all busy...some playing on the road and in the studio, others with a family like me. I still get together with other musicians, but it's a rare treat. So, I have to have an outlet. One of these days, the kids will be older and I will be able to play with others again like I used to. I hope to be able to make nice recordings of it with what I have learned "one dood by myself in the bedroom."

Did you ever think about the fact that a majority of middle age guys have a wife, kids, job and a mortgage!!! So the few of us middle age guys that do make time for music find it extremely difficult to find others too collaborate with. I'd love nothing better than to work with others. But to beat a dead horse, after the list I stated above plus the time and style considerations, you do the math. I'd be lucky if could get one song written in a couple of months with one of these dudes who can't be honest with themselves.

Signed,
Early forties Bassist all ways looking for a Singer and Guitarist to complete a full lentgh CD in this lifetime.

I practice weekly with my band and approach the setup like I do my engineering attempting to tweak amp eq to sit over the kick and bass. All our kit has gone valve and my ears melt over solid state guitar amps.

I do work with my band but record a lot on my own currently.

However to say that we are sheltered is somewhat not appreciating just how hard it is to find people to work with, I have made effort after effort to work with engineers around here but have not had any luck. I am a very approachable person and my current job is geared towards working with people, so I know how to avoid coming across in the wrong way.

So I have to sit here with my home setup and figure it out for myself. Its not easy but it can still be very rewarding and to be honest I have come so far since I started. I appreciate you might not sound like you fav top notch engineer but with time and practice you can get close.


The truth is there is a lot of people out there today all demanding different talent. Its there but you don't always know about it, so its more niche.

This is the future of music, the bedroom project studio, its still new and people are getting better and better at it. But imagine if popular music had been abolished on the basis that it was unconventional - or RAP music (then the world would have been a better place im sure!). Ok so you can't draw a line so simply, but we are just in another evolution of what the musician can do themselves. Lets just see where it goess cos you are not going to relive the 70's.

I agree with dots original post
I am a middle aged fart who does most the parts himself
although not in the bedroom
I have been trying to get other peoples help thru the net with some sucess.
Although it seems most people are too busy to help others even if offering to pay.
I definitely am working on the next step by working towards doing more open mikes and getting a real band to help with my originals
It's just way too hard feeding off others when doing the parts individually. Although a good mix (and drink) sometimes will help alot.
It is also sometimes hard to get together with others as everyones times don't always seem to work out. I opted to do my own studio because I was never good at being pressured when it comes to paying for time. Mainly my vocals- I need to be a loner?

oh yeah ditto to strangedays reply
I agree 100% and still enjoy doing what I can on my own in my studio. But other people to feed off of is a definite plus if you can get them to get together. But that is one of the hard parts . Specialy now with the gas prices and where i live (the Styx)

On this note, I need someone to record a piano accompaniment to a couple ballads I wrote. The tracks just need to be midi...

If anyone thinks that recording by yourself is a choice you make, then I think you should think again...It would be nice to pick up the phone and have a handful of musicians that could come in and lay a track for $50-$75...

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But other people to feed off of is a definite plus if you can get them to get together. But that is one of the hard parts . Specialy now with the gas prices and where i live (the Styx)

I can see your point:
This river Styx served as a crossroads where the world of the living met the world of the dead, and the world of the mortal met the world of the immortal.Greek Mythology Gods, mortals, and great heroes and villains made their way across the river Styx. Some crossed the river many times, but for most, it was a one way trip.

This is one of those interesting monster threads that keep coming back from the dead.

Going back and reading this from the start, I'm not entirely sure I understand it completely. I get the part about "pro" results though.

At some point though I wonder how much even that matters. A whole genre of Indie artists out there are fairly unconventional and either preferred to record in the basement alone or were prohibited somehow from doing otherwise. Chad Van Galen comes to mind, someone I think mentioned Mason Jennings. Sam Beam and Nick Drake come to mind, Elliot Smith maybe too. It may be that the solitary "loner" in the end produces better stuff. Not knocking a collaborative effort but it could be that the writer has a very specific vision of what he/she wants and maybe can't convey that in correct musical terms to other players, etc. I know a few self-taught musicians that are crazy good, they intuitively understand things but aren't particularly well versed in theory lingo, etc. I have no idea if that plays in to it or not - just throwing that out there.

There might be other reasons why someone might coop up in the bedroom or basement or whatever as well. I would think a lot of singer-songwriter types would choose to do their work alone just because it is what they do. The other possibility is of course just creating scratch tracks to present to a band or collaborators or whatever. Bringing something to the table.

There were some good pointsd made by both Chris and Henry. Whether something is good or bad is purely subjective. I love old Guided By Voices tunes, I think Bob Pollard and Tobin Sprout were "da Bomb" together, but others probably don't care for it and others still who are not looking for anything new, never found it. Daniel Johnston's music is another interesting example. A reviewer once said something like, "when it's good, it's genius, when it's bad, it's really bad." The thing is, the beauty is in the "ear" of the beholder. Sure, there's some exploitation going on and he became a cult favorite, but the truth is, the guy loves what he does. Which is a really important factor here, with regard to the bedroom dood. Well ok, there is a certain amount of narcicism and ego involved here too. Most want to at least be acknowledged for their art - otherwise a lot of the submissions to the MMMMusic Station wouldn't exist, let's face it.

But a big point of this is: Art is art is art. There are of course differences between "fine art" and "commercial art" to use a visual medium metaphor, but still it is what it is. Whether it's any good or not or popular or not is purely in the hands of the consuming public. Seems to me that brings up another factor - slightly tangential but... the relative "goodness" of the recording itself is then called in to question. How good does it really need to be anymore to be played on a gazillion Ipods with tiny little earbuds.

Damned interesting old thread for sure. I miss Henry chiming in on stuff, he always brought a lot of smarts to the table - and sometimes hit me over the head with 'em Miss hearing from Skeetch too, thought of him today as I ponder whether or not to head up to an old cabin in the woods that we both know about - smoke and fire are pretty bad in the Trinity mountains right about now.

-Adam

I agree, If you're not collaborrating with other musicians, your stuff will probably suck because you're lacking another set of ears that will only give you the benefit of the doubt in a critique. My old band's drummer is a multi-instrumentalist and is VERY talented at all he does. He called me up one day and asked to come into the studio and track a song that he'd written. I figured acoustic, but no...he asked me to set up the drums for him. I have to say, I was skeptical at first, but his true musicianship showed when he tracked each part separately and perfectly.
It takes a true musician to be able to write an entire song, then record it without any guitar monitor and still never miss a beat and know exactly where you are. He was on click and everything. I was wowed.

Other than that, I too am sick of jagoffs trying to relive their glory days now in their studios with therir drum machines and MIDI sequences. Get friends, get a band, and make some music that other people can enjoy too!