Lately I've noticed that when the older drummers record, their cymbals sound much better that the newer cymbals of younger drummers.
Am I nut's?? Or should I start shopping for some older Zildjian cymbals???

Does the studio "needs" list ever get any shorter????

It's likely because older drummmers know how to play better than younger ones, especially when it comes to recording. I think with cymbals you get what you pay for, better cymbals are more expensive. Cheaper cymbals sound like crap to me. I think there may be something to what you are saying though, I have some old Paiste 2000 cymbals that sound wonderful. But the newer AAX Sabians don't sound bad either. Depends alot on the player.

BOTH...technique matters a TON but I have a few old Zildjians that are near magical. And they weren't exoensive.

We had a thread a while back.
Do a Search for Zildjian and my name and you should find it.

jmp

Cymbals also respond to the stick weight as well as shape and type of bead on the stick. There are many variables to cymbal sound besides the cymbal itself. That being said you usually get what you pay for when buying cymbals. I'm sure there may be exceptions.

You can easily buy old Zild for $75-$150 and they are EXCELLENT...just not rare which is why they are cheap

I wrestled with cymbals for my kit for months finally realizing I had to pick out each one according to what MY ear liked.

Hey Darius, what cymbals did you get? Cymbals are hard to select as they sound different in the store then in gig situations.

ive had success with the paiste signature series, though i dont know if they still make them. and the player does play a bit of a role in how they sound.

Zildjian
14"New Beat hats
17" custom A Fast Crash
20" K ride (not custom K)

and a Sabian 16"sound controlled crash that came with my kit. It works well opposit the fast crash. I like sticks with wooden tips best but that's subjective

We have a lot of cymbals in our studio. The ones that often win out are the old Zildjian's. They're mine, and I got them sight unseen on Ebay.

A pair of older 14" New Beat hi hats run about $100.
I'd recommend thin crashes for recording.
Zildjian K ride for most music. Zildjian A ride for harder rock.

Buying older Zildjian cymbals is really the way to go, IMO. They're not nearly as expensive, and they sound great. And if you buy some and they don't work for you, put 'em back up for sale. Rinse and repeat until you wind up with a set of cymbals that you like.

IMO, because of the manufacturing process - or whatever - a lot of the new cymbals on the market sound like ass. There's no tone. One company I think that's actually making good quality cymbals these days is Meinl.

My 2¢.

If you have the money for new cymbals, check out the A Zildjian & Cie models. I have the 20" ride, 16" crash and 14" hats. They are really nice and thin and sweet like the OLD A Zildjians used to be in the 50's before rock and roll and higher volume music, when cymbals started to get thicker.

A medium ride from the old days and a medium ride from today are totally different, with the new ones being much thicker.

Any of the various K Zildjians are good, too.

I particularly like the 20" K Custom Pre-aged Dry Light Ride.

just my 2¢

quote:

I wrestled with cymbals for my kit for months finally realizing I had to pick out each one according to what MY ear liked.

Darius

Everyone here is right I think, but Darius nailed it. . .The thing about cymbals is that you ideally want them tuned in at the appropriate frequency to one another, and you’ll be hard pressed to get that out of a set per-se. . . I learned about this in the book “Mixing With Your Mind.” .. great read BTW. . . Then it dawned on me why guys like Buddy Rich would literally obsess over his cymbals—spending hours in a music store just tapping away at the edges and bells of various ones. . comparing and contrasting.. . listening with the most critical and analytical ear.

I say this, as I’m still working on my own kit—which isn’t “there” yet. . Well actually, I should qualify by saying that my kit is perfect when tuned properly, and my cymbals aren’t bad. .. all Sabian and a hand hammered ride that I LOVE. . .However, there are times where I really could use lighter crashes; so, it’s really just a matter of getting more options than anything else in my case.

Cheers,

Chris

Thank you all for the great advice

Man, I hate/love - love/hate this place ... youse guys are makin' me wanna buy cymbals, and I don't even have a freakin' drumkit!!

mud

quote:

Originally posted by MudBean:
Man, I hate/love - love/hate this place ... youse guys are makin' me wanna buy cymbals
mud

Tell me about it! After this thread I've got a bid on one and my eye on a couple others. Bastards!

There is an internet site called frontrangebronze.com that I bought a nice ride from. You can check out the sound of the cymbals. I can spend lots of time just listening to the cymbals on that site and getting pissed off because I don't have enough cash to buy more cymbals.

the problem with picking them by ear (especially if you're not really experienced in this procedure), is that what might sound cool to your ear might not track very well...which I guess applies to every piece of gear we have in our studios
seems that to my ear cymbals are either in the good or bad category, and beyond that I don't care all that much. I care more about hi hats, which you play all the way through a song.. a lot less about crashes and rides which shouldn't be played much. Sometimes a cymbal might be a great cymbal, and the drummer boasts to me how he hand picked it from 10,671 cymbals at Guitar center. I don't argue, but if it's a ride cymbal that sustains for 1.26 hours after you hit it, I may not think it's appropriate for what the track needs. I'm simplifying somewhat.

I don't care about brands either. Some drummers say they're "a Paiste man" or whatever. I don't think it matters one bit if you have a Paiste crash, Zildjian ride and Ufip hats. And, I do worry when a drummer shows up with more than hats, ride, and 2 crashes(and more than 3 toms too). A china cymbal is a big red flag.. That usually means I'll hear them

My cymbals at home are mid grade, they sound OK, good with some mics, not so good with others. I'm a mid grade( I'm being generous) drummer though. When it comes time to get some better cymbals I'll leave it up to one of a couple people I know that have dedicated their life to drums, drumming and having great tones..instead of me, thinking I really know about such matters. They leave mic'ing to me, I'll leave drum stuffs to them.

One trick I came up with is when auditioning cymbals try to listen from a couple feet above it, like where a mic would hear it.