quote:

The only pitfall I see is deluding yourself into thinking with a couple of grand worth of gear your gonna produce a pro level recording.

Aside from the inheirent pitfalls in using a computer for ANYTHING...

But, I think there's another pitfall, which may go hand in hand with the "pro recording" thing...the idea of making "the" recording. When you call it a "demo" it implies that it's a demonstartion-sketch if you will, of what it could be. Once you let go of the idea of it being a demo, you not only start putting more pressure on yourself from a sonic standpoint, but from a performance, too. You don't just want the vocal on key and saying the right words. You want that intangible magic take. Using vocal as example--it applies to all tracks.

I used to make demos of my work thinking one day, I'd be in big studios with lots of musicians and producers and engineers to do the "real" versions. I don't believe that's going to happen anymore.

I'd be happy with several projects that have sustained listenablity from my own studio. That's a goal I can meet hopefully whilst being able to
generate recordings of artists who would not get the chance to be heard or are unwilling to record because of how intimidating big studios can be.
We all have an interest in informing people and educating them that there are levels that should be met. The wheat from the chaff so to speak. Throw the Grand Karaoke Experiment (American Idol) against us and we do have a battle.

I've said it before here and I'll continue saying it because I think it's still true. The home studios aren't particularly killing music. Lack of musicianship is. The idea that GEARwill make a song better. This is opposed to PRACTICING AND LEARNING MUSICto actually improve your skills as a musician. Obviously gear is important. I've sunk quite a bit of money into it. But I think the priorities as slightly askew. By far the most important element is the ability to play. That's the source. The ability to write. The ability to perform. And when more time is spent noodling with compressors than noodling with musicial parts on an instrument; when trying to find that EQ setting to bring out the lack of slap on the bass instead of working on the technique that puts it there in the first place, weove lost direction. I think the notion that a plug-in will do it- will make music for you, has defeated the purpose of MAKING MUSIC.

Music is in the hands. The notion that music is in a computer I think is harmful becuse it removes us one step further from the source. The person making the music. That's why pencil and paper work best for me. Basic technology.

That's the danger, if you will, of relying too much on DAWs. Bands used to be more prevalent. Music was a social structure. Going into a studio where you had limited funds of $75 to $200 an hour you HAD to know how to hit it. If not you sucked and the band was pissed for wasting time and money. Now there's a misplaced idea that I can play it and cut and paste it in time, take all the time in the world, compress the dynamics in order to turn it into a decent musical phrase. It's ass backwards as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe home studios are killing music.

quote:

Originally posted by Henryrobinett:
I've said it before here and I'll continue saying it because I think it's still true. The home studios aren't particularly killing music. Lack of musicianship is. The idea that GEARwill make a song better. This is opposed to PRACTICING AND LEARNING MUSICto actually improve your skills as a musician. Obviously gear is important. I've sunk quite a bit of money into it. But I think the priorities as slightly askew. By far the most important element is the ability to play. That's the source. The ability to write. The ability to perform. And when more time is spent noodling with compressors than noodling with musicial parts on an instrument; when trying to find that EQ setting to bring out the lack of slap on the bass instead of working on the technique that puts it there in the first place, weove lost direction. I think the notion that a plug-in will do it- will make music for you, has defeated the purpose of MAKING MUSIC.

Music is in the hands. The notion that music is in a computer I think is harmful becuse it removes us one step further from the source. The person making the music. That's why pencil and paper work best for me. Basic technology.

That's the danger, if you will, of relying too much on DAWs. Bands used to be more prevalent. Music was a social structure. Going into a studio where you had limited funds of $75 to $200 an hour you HAD to know how to hit it. If not you sucked and the band was pissed for wasting time and money. Now there's a misplaced idea that I can play it and cut and paste it in time, take all the time in the world, compress the dynamics in order to turn it into a decent musical phrase. It's ass backwards as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe home studios are killing music.

I agree 100%! If you are an engineer, then be the best engineer you can be, reguardless of what brand of gear you use (Hi-End or Low End)! Also, if you are a musician, be the best musician you can be, reguardless of what brand instrument you have ! I've heard good recordings on "budget gear", and I've heard good performances on "budget" instruments! Go figure...!

Actually music isn't dieing. It's stronger than ever!

The only thing that is dieing is the desire of music listeners, and the selection that top 40 radio gives them.

Music isn't about skills. It's about conveying emotions. Fuck skills... I sure like Vital Tech Tones (Scott Henderson, Victor Wooten and Steve Smith) more than the Beatles, they are such a better band... Yeah RIGHT!

Steely Dan is a much better band than Radiohead because they don't rely on effects. YEAH RIGHT!

If the emotion is there, and people can relate to the emotion it's good music. Who needs skills?

What is ruining music is all this kind of talk. Everyone is too caught up with the "fact" that music is dead to actually listen! Dig in and you'll find some of the best music ever recorded came out of the last 5 years...

My fav albums of 2004 are:

Brian Wilson - Smile
Elliott Smith - From a Basement on the Hill
Tift Merritt - Tambourine
Wilco - A Ghost Is Born
Drive By Truckers - The Dirty South

I dare anyone to get to know those albums and then find 5 albums clearly better from any year in history. And I could list way more (Ron Sexsmith, Bjork, Sun Kil Moon, Jazzoo)... The last 5 years has just been killer, quit bitchin' and start listenin'... That's my new slogan, maybe the RIAA will buy it from me.

I haven't even heard the album of the year (Genuis Loves Company)... So I'm sure I missed a lot of great shit this year too!

People over 30 didn't like the Beatles in the 60's either. Did the Beatles ever win a Grammy? No. Now we know that older people can like the Beatles, just at the time they were too stubborn to give them a chance! They would rather bitch about how the Beatles were killing music, boo hoo.

-Dusty

Well first of all it takes SKILL to play with emotion. You seem to be qualifying a certain type of skill. I'm not. I'm talking about playing WELL regardless of genre. And I'm certainly not talking about CDs that are being made, in general. I'm talking about the home spun engineers. How they're focus seems to be askew, to me. Not the current hit records or not hit records or the state of the recording industry. I like a lot of the music that's being made. Dusty, that's not what I'm talking about.

quote:

Originally posted by Henryrobinett:
By far the most important element is the ability to play. That's the source. The ability to write. The ability to perform. And when more time is spent noodling with compressors than noodling with musicial parts on an instrument; when trying to find that EQ setting to bring out the lack of slap on the bass instead of working on the technique that puts it there in the first place, weove lost direction. I think the notion that a plug-in will do it- will make music for you, has defeated the purpose of MAKING MUSIC.

I agree with you Henry !! especially the noodling with gear part. I think that's what Ronan is getting at, everyone is too into tweeking, not performing.
Its sooo easy to that with a DAw, I'm a victim myself.
If you're the "engineer" then you should be tweeking, but as the "performer" you have to perform.
Maybe as a "home wreccer" it should be kept in perspective with what you're role is mainly and keeping the tweeking part to a minimal just so you can capture the "source", until you get enough experience to be able to handle the tweekin part. Though it easy to fall into the tweeking mentality.. its fun, and adventerous. But its easy to loose your goal.

T

I think this thread is to general.

I agree with basically everything everyone is saying here... Even Henry, infact I thought his post was one of the best... I think we all have basically the same ideas, it's just his thread is so general we're all fighting it from our own perspectives... Which is cool.

First of all, we all know music isn't dead or dieing (the music industry on the other hand is debatable...)

We know that some (perhaps most) pop (and other genres) writers with home studios are less productive with than without the studio.

And we know better results are achieved in pro studios much, much, much more often than home studios.

There are probably a few more as well...

****
And everyone is going "yeah"... I don't see this as being one of those threads that anyone could really debate unless everyone is talking about different things because it is so broad!

I know what you mean now, Henry. You are just such a good musician, and you still practice so much... Green Day has obviously been relaying Grammy-Winning emotions for some time now without a smidgoen of your talent. And you STILL practice all the time (or so I've read in your other posts!) Maybe you should spend your days doing drugs, buying hookers, base jumping, robbing people and/or picking fights. That would improve your songwriting. And isn't good songwriting more important than mastering sweep arpeggiated advanced extension chords in odd time signatures? That advanced shit hurts my ears unless I'm playing it! I don't want dissidence, I don't want unresolved tension. I want 3 chords and a beat that I can shake my ass to while thinking about Claudia Schiffer as I make a cheese sandwhich.

I heard something interesting today... Throughout history music has only been profitable for the last 50 years (actually I'd say more like 75... but that's not what the pro engineer said who said it... I guess pro engineers can be wrong sometimes too, eh? )

-Dusty

quote:

Originally posted by dusty:
... Did the Beatles ever win a Grammy? No. -Dusty

Ahem, Dusty -

As usual, your head is again firmly up your ass. The Beatles won several grammies, among them Best New Artist (1964), Album of the Year (Sgt Pepper's), and Best Performance by a Vocal Group (Hard Day's Night). In addition to Best Engineering awards for Sgt Pepper's and Abbey Road.

Please, stop ranting and start thinking!

Oh, and, BTW, skills are what give a musician the ABILITY to convey emotion.

mud

I think "skills"...well, that's a tough thing to define--or easy to define but hard to assign value to...

quote:

Originally posted by MudBean:
Ahem, Dusty -

As usual, your head is again firmly up your ass. The Beatles won several grammies, among them Best New Artist (1964), Album of the Year (Sgt Pepper's), and Best Performance by a Vocal Group (Hard Day's Night). In addition to Best Engineering awards for Sgt Pepper's and Abbey Road.

mud

I was misinformed and didn't care to check... Thanks for clearing that up. No need to be a prick though, Mud. Seriously. Let me know what I did to you... OK? After your last little prick-fest I did a complete search of what might have pissed you off and found nothing.

Why do you target me? Surely other people say stuff that is wrong or that you disagree with?

-Dusty

quote:

Originally posted by Henryrobinett:
I'm talking about playing WELL regardless of genre.

Totally agree. You're not talking Andre Segovia or Pavoratti - just at least be able to tune your instrument, play in time, and sing in tune. Only then can the emotion start being conveyed.

jmisner

Yeah I get that. I was just thinking of Henry at the time I read it. He claims to practice (what is it 8 hours a day?) a hell of a lot, and he said he played stuff like Mahavishnu Orchestra (John McLaughlin) stuff on guitar in college (which was probably some time ago)... I've also heard some of his stuff and it's excelent. I'd say he's pretty good to still make a point of practicing that much!

So when he said it I just got in my mind that he was refering to himself (which I'm sure he is to some degree since he still puts such a stress on practicing). Mistake, it was cleared up quick and painlessly.

Practice is important in my book as well... I just read in to his post wrong. Surely none of that goes on around here.

-Dusty

quote:

Originally posted by dusty:
... No need to be a prick though, Mud. Seriously. Let me know what I did to you... OK? After your last little prick-fest I did a complete search of what might have pissed you off and found nothing.

Why do you target me? Surely other people say stuff that is wrong or that you disagree with?

-Dusty

Ah, you can take it, kid. Just seems to me, from reading your posts here and on other boards, that you have a tendency to type before you think, and it rubs me the wrong way. Makes me think of Waterski Phil's signature paraphrase. Waddaya care what I think, anyway? I'm just some schmuck nobody.

Man, you should see the things I write in response to some of your posts that never get sent! Might not seem like it, but I do have SOME sensitivity!

mud

quote:

Originally posted by dusty:
I think this thread is to general.

I agree with basically everything everyone is saying here... Even Henry, infact I thought his post was one of the best... I think we all have basically the same ideas, it's just his thread is so general we're all fighting it from our own perspectives... Which is cool.
snip . . .
I know what you mean now, Henry. You are just such a good musician, and you still practice so much... Green Day has obviously been relaying Grammy-Winning emotions for some time now without a smidgoen of your talent. And you STILL practice all the time (or so I've read in your other posts!) Maybe you should spend your days doing drugs, buying hookers, base jumping, robbing people and/or picking fights. That would improve your songwriting. And isn't good songwriting more important than mastering sweep arpeggiated advanced extension chords in odd time signatures? That advanced shit hurts my ears unless I'm playing it! I don't want dissidence, I don't want unresolved tension. I want 3 chords and a beat that I can shake my ass to while thinking about Claudia Schiffer as I make a cheese sandwhich.
-Dusty

Thanks for understanding me Dusty. One thing that drives me a little crazy is this misunderstanding that seems to take place sometimes. It happened about 8 months ago with kidsurf. Maybe because I practice a lot. Maybe because I play jazz mainly (but also have made my living playing r&r, funk etc.). If I open my mouth about the need to play MUSIC -- really PLAY music with your hands, some folks get their nose pushed out of shape and think I'm putting them down. They equate this as something else. Some old jazz guy telling them the MUSIC of today stinks and nothing is as good as Charlie Parker. Well if someone has their buttons pushed so hard misinterpreting something I DIDN'T SAYthey clearly have something going on in that area, but it's not me. Because I didn't say it.

BTW I wish I could practice 8 hours a day! There was one three week period in my life, in high school, where I broke through to the 8 hour zone, but promptly over did it and couldn't touch the guitar again for a couple of months. I then resumed my 6 hours program. Today if I get in 1-2 a day I'm doing well. Two is my target. That's just what I do. That's my involvement. Music is not a hobby for me. My whole existence and continuing involvement is dependent upon my ability to perform at the top of my game. I get hired to be a hot shot, so I have to maintain a standard. I don't expect everyone else to have the same kind of dedication, but I would think it would be nice if people took music seriously enough to be able to play it well as a goal.

I was always moved by performances, real or imagined. If I hear some music I like to assume it was performed. This is inspirational to me. Hearing (or seeing especially) someone perform something, knowing that they actually CAN do it; that it actually sprung from his/her fingers-gonads-viscera-head-being in one fell swoop . . . . whew. THAT'S a human spirit. Doesn't have to be difficult technically or otherwise. Doesn't have to be macho speed, death defying stuff. One note. But cut and pasting just ruins it for me personally. And I think it ruins the PROCESS of making music FOR ME PERSONALLY.

Before anyone gets their nose pushed out of shape I'm talking about for me. It's not a value judgement about all music or the end result, whether you know the performance was cut and pasted or not. But I think it's the process that's being lost. We’re turning out and training a bunch of wussie, incompetent musicians. I’m speaking also as an educator and someone who played a gig last night with a bunch of talented 20 sometihng players and who just did a recording session 2 hours ago with a 24 year old jazz trumpet phenom. I'm speaking about the hordes of folks who found music by way of DAW, virtual instruments, etc.. That please don't forget the hands on music. Music was intended to be played, that means with an instrument rather than the space bar.

Love and rock ‘n roll.

Hello,

I thought I'd mention the case of electronic music dance music, where the production techniques are very heavily emphasized (a good example is, funky tribal techno by artist 'Hertz' album 'Take Something' or 'Phonk' or artist Adam Beyer album 'Snuff and Noise' track2 clips of which can be heard on www.music-head.de) .

In this style the overall DAW sequencer studio (recording, synthesis, sampling, fx) really becomes the instrument to play and practice. Songwriting is mostly careful rhythmic arrangement, sound choice, sound design nuances, compressor sidechain tricks, valve flavor, automated control, etc.

It is true that some acoustic percussion grooves and interesting found-sound effects are often made and used in the music, so there are 'live instrument' playing and recording techniques involved.

I have been working on gradually learning this music, and find much of the work lies in the preparation phase, with a variety of computer / studio ergonomics and workflow issues to overcome, so this discussion is very interesting to me.

- Andrew

Well, forums are kind places, Mudbean... Especially Studio Forums. It's suppose to to be for fun. And I don't have fun writing if I have to double check all my facts, think everything over 3 times, bust out the spell checker and review it 3 times. I rarely even do a once over of posts I write.

And those are things that might sound odd to you... But like I said, it's for fun! Believe me, I would much rather be wasting my youth somewhere else. I've been here for so long, I rarely learn anything (I've seen some of these threads 50 times already!), but I still know very little compared to the pros so I don't help a lot of people. And I also don't get anything done while I'm on here! What keeps bringing me back? I'm really not certain!

I also have very little of the same musical taste as people on here! And it screws me up. Sometimes I sit down and try and record songs that would impress all you Steely Dan fans, when really I don't care for that shit, my peers reallly don't care for that shit, and that shit isn't going to make my dreams a reality. But Popmann might think I'm cool!

I guess I'm here because I just like talking to people that share an interest with me. Sometimes I get burned out and don't contribute more than off-topic stuff and jokes. And I like to write, rant and fuss... Who doesn't?

***
I think much of your problem with me is stemed with translation of text. I'm a 20 year old soft-spoken Kansan... I'm not a confident person... My statements come out as questions when I talk and I love Elton John (not in that way!). I'm not at all like the punks that egged your car on halloween, but I might know some of them.

I am extremly dedicated to recording. That doesn't mean I'm any good... But I don't pretend to be. I have dedicated the last 7 (I've spent 2 weeks of the last 3 years with friends my age... other than that I stay isolated in my studio) years to music. I've never made more than minimum wage (or the equiv. of 40 hours at min. wage) and I've built a studio worth about 30k (I have 5k worth of acoustic products ALONE!). I bought my car for $900 and live with my mom... And if anything my parents owe me money! The point I'm trying to make is I am not spoiled, I have no college fund and I bought my last pair of shoes (2 sizes to big) right before my freshmen year in high school (6-7 years ago!). I am just truly dedicated to recording and I'll spend what it takes... Sometimes what it takes for me is piece of mind and things that save time and add comfort more than sonics.

I've been trying to make my album for 7 years now (I seriously use the same trapper-keeper to store my songs as I did when I was 13) and I don't even have one song written that is good enough.

I'm very picky when it comes to music and gear. I think some of the best known gear in the industry is shit and some of the stuff that no one cares much for is great. I expect the gear that stays in my studio to be top notch.

I have some of the top of the line $160 buck On Stage stands that Mercenary sells and I snaped one last night. Those morons fastened two pieces of steel pipe together with thick paint!!! And its on the last 7" from where the mic is held! It passed Fletchers test (he's known for some of the rigerous quality control testing in the industry), but not mine. I will probably email Fletcher about it so he can check it out himself... I would hate for someones brand new Telefunken 251 ($25,000!) to fall 20' because the stands are made stupid! I pride myself on this kind of QC tests... As you seemed pissy about on the Mackie Console thing.

I thought I made a lot of good points in that thread.

First off, I was the first person that recommended checking out the new Mackies.

Second, you scolded me for lack of experience while no pros (Dan and Ronan) recommended Mackies. And basically said what I said (without dissing Mackie) .

Third, I have owned a Mackie or Mackie grade console for 6-7 years until 3-4 months ago when I got sick of consoles!

Fourth, I said Behringers are made better than Mackies, IMHO. That was't a slam on Mackie in any way. I had two Mackies, but bought a Behringer as my last board. I have also said that my ($280) Behringer Truths sound better in a lot of ways than my $2,400 KRK V8's. The V8's sound a bit flatter/quieter with a slightly better image, so I put the Behringers in a box in the basement. The Behringers would make better hi-fi speakers though (great big bass!).

Fourth, I followed up on Dan's Neotek recommendation and linked to Steve Albini's Electrical Audio site that has tons of information on those consoles (from one of the most respected engineers of the 20th century). I also stated that I've seen lots of them around and what low prices they fetched. I hear the pres are very similar to Sytek pres (same designer) that cost $800+, for 4... And won out against high end stuff like DW Fearn's according to an old forum buddy that attended the Tape Op Chicago Pre Party.

Yes, I did state Mackies depreciate in quality, but only after making it clear that I am super anal about that kind of stuff. And they do.

Watch this video
http://www.recordproduction.com/paul-borg.html

It is a pro talking about how the EQ on new SSL's sounds better than ones a year or two old because they lose their bite over time...

Believe me, if 3 million dollar SSL's lose quality so do $1,500 Mackies!

There was also an article in Tape Op about how you can blow the op amps in a Mackie by sending an overly hot signal through it. It isn't secret bullshit, it's well published facts.

I also think a pro like Ronan is going to be able to set up gain staging much better than project studioers like us. You can run a signal of any level in to an ol' Neve and get a solid tone (I was running 50db's of gain on a mic inside the kick, 2" from the batter today! 20db's could have got me to digital 0!), a Mackie isn't going to sound very "hi-fi" if you don't run it in a very small window... Which can be a hard/time consuming thing to troubleshoot!

More pros will talk shit on Mackie than will defend them... I've been around for a while. Go to http://www.gearslutz.com/ if you want a high percentage of pro engineers. There are threads saying pres costing $1,000 a channel are garbage over there... Mackie's don't fare well!

5th, That is the fun of forums. You get multiple point of views. I state mine, people disagree or agree with me, and you are left to make your own decision. If Dan and I disagree with something you can weigh each side out and make up your own mind! Everyone knows Dan is a b'zillion times the engineer I am (he engineered the best sounding album in my collection!). It is pointless to point it out.

It's fun, we spend our days debating subtle sonic details... You just can't take that too frickin' serious! A lot of times the best information comes out of disagreements. People are wrong all the time, but no one ever gets rude about it. People hate being wrong enough to have to rub it in! And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to equate whos right if I'm arguing with a pro... Maybe the only reason I am arguing is so I can learn the reasons why someone else is right!

But as I said earlier... The topics here are so subtle. I wasn't trying to say MACKIES ARE UNUSABLE SHIT, but I was trying to say, I've been that path and I believe there is a better one (and I made no secret that I haven't found a better one... Other than consoless!). I wasn't being definitive at all... just kinda chit-chatting at 4AM because I have nothing better to do.

And sometimes the pro isn't the right person to listen to for a perspective. Pros disagree with other pros on every thing we could possibly debate here!

Would you decide what budget car to buy based soley on a NASCAR drivers opinion that drives a Lamborgini on his days off?

Would you rather take mic advice from someone who owns the mic and relys on it for everything or someone that owns 50 better mics and has used the mic in question once to record thumb piano?!

I really think there are two valid sides to a lot of these opinions on gear. I know if I buy a piece of gear it BETTER FUCKING DELIVER...

I don't think pros or people with money really care... They'll just get another! I work from check to check, that might take me 6 months!

And the only 2 people that posted (on topic) in that thread other than Dan and I were Stixxs, Josan and Dirty. Josan spoke of Mackies being shit, Dirty recommend just about every console but Mackie, but said Mackies "seem well built" and Stixxs said if he had 2k to spend he would get something besides his Mackie Onyx (which IIIII Recommended checking out!)

And then you got rude. I don't see what anyone else offered of any more value than me (no offense, friends. ) And Dirty is only 2 years older than me, so he could have just as easily been offended (well maybe not quite as easily ) by your "And if Ronan can't convince you, maybe you should just go play over in the other room for a while and let the grownups talk, O.K.?" comment.

Yes, admittedly... I do exaggerate things (everyone here knows that!) and I am a bit long winded. But that is no reason to get rude.

Posts are not the final answer. Pretend its a phone conversation where everything is just kind of a laid back comment or idea. If someone is wrong about something, or you disagree... Just say so. When you talk to someone on the phone you don't bite their head off and make them feel stupid everytime they are wrong! It's a much smoother, kinder thing.

I've had beef with everyone here when I, or they first joined. I don't know what it is. Pop and I were at each others throats for a while. Jazzooo and I just couldn't communicate clearly. I still argue with Henry every time I talk in the same thread as him (I haven't figure out why yet, but I respect him greatly). Dan and I have had fall outs... I actually quit the forum for a few weeks when Dan pissed me off once (I don't even think Dan knows that... I'm just touchy!). I called Moon Unit Sound a "mother fucker" after I thought he attacked me. Kid-Surf and I took a long time to hit it off. Warhead and I disagreed with everything (I actually started posting at SF because I thought he was a fool!).

And all these people have become my friends (some may not claim me. ). I'm sure I had a bit of beef with everyone here at one point.

It's mostly in learning to translate each other. I know everyone aboves style so well that they could post without any punctuation and smileys and I'd completly get what they mean! I've really learned (studio forums was the first forum I stacked up more than 50 posts) to give everyone I'm just getting to know on here the benefit of the doubt. I could have really blown up about your "snide mexican work ethic" comment for instance, but instead I passed it as harmless stereotypical humor and ignored it.

What voice and what pace do you read peoples posts with? I use to read peoples post I didn't like (no names!) with a snooty, offensive voice. Sometimes I would get so caught up in assumtions that I would even read things ASS-BACKWARDS to overjustify my own opinions! You might be surprised how different everyone sounds in real life! I have never talked to anyone with similar interests as myself on the phone or in person and not had a great time... So now I just assume everyone is cool, including you Mud... We'll get over this.

And I know... I am posting this all in a thread that has nothing to do with any of this. Because I don't take it that seriously. I wouldn't enjoy figuring out a better place to post this, so I'm not going to do it. This is my leisure time, damnit!

Oh and give me back my trophy, TEKKER!

-Dusty

Henry. I think you have a lot of good points. But I still think some good music CAN be made with a spacebar! Definetly not the "best" music though... Not even close.

I also don't think there is anything wrong with faking it. I think it can (and generally does) take away from the performance, but some people (ME!) need that crutch while they learn to walk! So in at least some ways I think it's OK.

And Kid-Surf makes music for film which would be an impossibility on his budget without MIDI... So I think that is cool too. I'm sure Mr. Surf would rather have a big orchestra at his fingertips!

I don't see a lot of people creating music this way that could do it without. Or atleast without a lot of practice!

-Dusty