great subject. I have streamlined all my music equipment last couple months to focus on the fact that i am first a singer/songwriter. I am technical and can get into all the gear but honestly i realized it takes away from the process. So, i now have 1 electric, 1 accoustic, 2 mics and a stereo mic and 1 mic-pre. Thats all i need. I would say get a macbook and an mbox. Thats all you need.
PT is pretty easy to use.

Just found this thread, man can I relate, I have been spending way to much time fiddling with gear and computer shit.

I do not think it was all time wasted, but it does tend to isolate me more. I finally have figured out a fairly simple setup and am now just figuring out how to use mics and mixers properly. I asked a few questions on this forum on other topics.

The other posts on this thread are really interesting, and thought provoking.

Peace

Denny

quote:

Originally posted by gracejames:
great subject. I have streamlined all my music equipment last couple months to focus on the fact that i am first a singer/songwriter. I am technical and can get into all the gear but honestly i realized it takes away from the process. So, i now have 1 electric, 1 accoustic, 2 mics and a stereo mic and 1 mic-pre. Thats all i need. I would say get a macbook and an mbox. Thats all you need.
PT is pretty easy to use.

+1

Although, I have a Digi001, Behringer ADA 8000, RNP running on a G4 desktop and a nice workstation desk and monitors, it is more than I really need to sketch out song arrangements and not enough to compete with a real studio (admittedly mostly due to my inexperience as an engineer).

I have spent about 8 years in the quest for the perfect recording setup gear, starting with a Soundblaster and Cakewalk Music Creator.

If I added up the hours I have spent reading manuals and forum threads about what mic/preamp/DI is the best for $XX, it is significant. The time would have been much better spent practicing or writing new songs. I am a songwriter first and bassist second and in all honesty, nowhere remotely close to being a recording engineer. It is fun to tinker with, but it is not my passion. Writing songs is my passion and playing bass in bands where everything just clicks is a passion too.

I recently got a used G4 ibook and a used first generation mbox. The simplicity and reliability of the setup is about as close to a Portastudio as I think I can get and the preamps in the mbox sound fine to me. I just plug it in and it works. I can take it anywhere I want to when the dogs are barking or I want to go record at a friend's house. It is more than enough to sketch out a new song and tentative arrangements and demos.

I will hold on to the Digi001 setup for awhile, but I think I will eventually sell all of that stuff and just keep it simple. If I really want to record a CD of original tunes and record the band rhythm section simultaneously, I'll go into a real studio and pay someone who engineers all day every day. It's like working on my cars. Yeah, I can change sparkplugs, drop transmissions, replace brake pads, etc., but that does not make me a real mechanic.

There really is something to the KISS principle.

bilco

thats great to get some confirmation.
I feel liberated to be honest with you.
I have learned a good amount of engineering
chops and now i just want to focus on the songwriting and performance.
I'm sure all the studio owners would love to hear that.

Bilco, great analogy with the real mechanic.
Just plug in and play. RNP is a solid mic-pre. With that and good comp and plugs can yield studio-like results.
It just requires 'more work' when you don't have all the studio gear.
Still considering the ADA8000 for the conversion. Is it a big difference to your ears in comparison to
the stock 001 converters?

-james

quote:

Originally posted by gracejames:
Still considering the ADA8000 for the conversion. Is it a big difference to your ears in comparison to
the stock 001 converters?

-james

I am really the wrong person to ask about the converters' sound; my hearing is not and probably never will be that developed. I don't know how to separate the preamps from the converters in what I am hearing. I am using the mic preamps in both cases. I will tell you what I do think I know and hear:

I did a pretty unscientific comparison between the Digi001, ADA8000 and an Audio Buddy. I used the same mics on the same acoustic guitar in the same room, pointed at the same place on the guitar. I didn't really hear anything that stood out head and shoulders from one of them to the next one. I did notice that on a decaying guitar chord at the end of a song each of them emphasized a different harmonic of the dying chord. That was very noticeable and kind of interesting, but I didn't walk away saying "wow, this one is really the best of the three." The ADA has kind of a hollow, other worldly sound to it, but that could be problems with it being clocked by PTLE as master. Sometimes I thought it sounded best and sometimes I didn't.

On the other hand, the RNP makes an SM57 sound like the world's best mic on MY voice.... better than an SM7b, MD421, KSM27, KSM32, SM58 and NT1a. For my voice, the RNP and an SM57 work great; it's as far as I need to look for home recording. On my acoustic guitar though, I don't like what the RNP does with my SM81. It is honky, boxy and just not fun to listen to. I am sure it is my technique and not the RNP, but to me, the SM81 sounds better on the acoustic guitar through a cheap preamp like the Audio Buddy. It has a high sheen to that I can't seem to find with the RNP. But remember, you are talking to someone who has significant hearing loss from 35 years of playing bass next to a trap set. Take it all with a block of salt.

The whole GAS phenomenon is like a trip down the rabbit hole in Alice in Wonderland. I got an upright bass in December and my latest obsession has been "What are the BEST strings for my upright?" They are $100 or more a set and there are guys out there with drawers full of $1,000 worth of unused bass strings. It just hit me - Learn how to play with what I already have, learn how to record with what I already have. which means the RNP and SM57 for my voice and probably the mbox preamps and the SM81 for the guitar. Be happy with the gear I have now, be happy with the gear I have now, be happy.........

But the obsession still creeps in...... I think, SPEAKING ONLY FOR ME, that the whole gear obsession syndrome is a way to keep me from facing my writer's block, the fact that I have written songs for 35 years and have never released a CD (fear of something) and the fact that my guitar and bass playing has been stuck on a plateau for ~ 15 years. It is a way to avoid admitting that maybe it really is just the talent and not the gear that makes it work and maybe if I were objective, I could admit that in the grand scheme of music, I am just not that talented. I don't want to face that possibility, so I avoid committing anything to a CD and look for the gear that will make it perfect. It is a both scapegoat and a diversion, albeit a fun one.

These forums are a diversion too, but I like being connected with folks going through the same thing I am.

What I REALLY need is accountability. Someone to kick my ass to get back to work........

bilco

quote:

On my acoustic guitar though, I don't like what the RNP does with my SM81. It is honky, boxy and just not fun to listen to.

I've had a problem with inconsistency in getting good acoustic guitar sounds. I'm sure you've heard all the hooplah about recording acoustics, but the one thing that helped me out a lot was using a med-thin pick, especially for strumming stuff. It's almost like putting a low cut (or HPF) on the acoustic and letting the mid freq sort of define the sound of the acoustic. I guess, it makes the acoustic a little less tonal and more percussive, but it just seems to sit better when mixing a somewhat dense pop/rock track. Anyway, just my two cents and truck load full of salt. (What does that saying really mean anyway?!)

Anywho, I have two cores, engineer and musician. Music and engineering go together like pie and ice cream. So delving into all this gear is like having both at the same time. I have to admit though, being super technical can get in the way of a demanding performance. But that's why I try to wear each hat one at a time. Sometimes I'm the musician, sometimes the engineer, sometimes both. To have that flexibility and power can be truly intoxicating (for me that is).

Good thread, What Ronan said is almost exactly what I have gone through. I toured for years trying to get a decent deal and even had some success in a band situation, but then one day I bought a fostex 8 track reel to reel and played around with it for a while and thought, "hey, this is pretty cool". So then I upgraded to the Roland 890 and then finally to the dreaded DAW and pretty much never looked back . I sometimes miss all the touring and just hanging out with the band, kind of the big adventure thing but Ive discovered a whole new outlet for me. I get to work with a lot of young bands and find that I realy enjoy that and also find that Im more creative on this side of the board than I ever was on the other side. Recording has a technical side that appeals to me, being an analytical type. I always thought that I could "play" with pretty much anyone, but never considered myself to be very creative as a guitarist. So for me personally its been a good thing. I get to at least "feel" creative and get to pass along some things to the next generation, I guess im pretty content.

Well I thought this would be a good first post. I have somthing in common with many of you. I first realized that when computers were starting to hit the market that this day would be possible. I was 18 in 1978 when I decided that someday I was going to have a recording studio in my home.
I was not sure what that involved except a computer. I played guitar but all the songs I tried to write sounded like one guy playing a guitar. Not impessive, when I felt like I had all this other stuff in me trying to get out. In the early eighties the first digital recording studios were in the neighborhood of ONE MILLION DOLLARS! I was hoping I was going to live long enough for the prices to come down.

I was just playing and not writing because the most I could do was bounce some casettes back and forth. This only made me want a multi track setup even worse. The tape hiss made it unusable after a few bounces.
Finally in 94 I got my first computer a 25mhz Mac that could do midi. At $2000 it was state of the art at that time so I was getting close. I got a Yamaha TG300 sound module and I was now on the fore front. I knew this was still a stepping stone and I started to think I was actually going to live to see my dream happen.

In the ten years follow that machine I had 2 more Macs that actually did audio recording though I knew it was still in its infancy.

In 2004 I began to formally start the building of the studio with the purchase of my current machine, a dual 1.8 Ghz G5. I have just recently finished in late 2006 with the addition of a Fireface 800, Mackie Control Universal to control Logic Pro, a Yamaha Motif and a couple of sets
of JBL studio monitors. Since I have a bit of OCD there are of course many other items that have been added to make a studio proper like external hardware and additional
software titles to complete the package.
Now I am starting to write the kind of songs that I knew that I could and a life long dream is starting to be fulfilled.

The one major lesson I have learned in these years of aquiring gear is that is it all still comes back to the music. I have had some talent but until recently never
studied music theory. I am finding that this is where the
real knowledge needs to be. Talent will only get you so far. As I am learning it is the hows and the whats that will make the difference. In other words knowledge of WHAT makes a certain style of music sounds the way it does and HOW to create that, will get you further than having the best equipment and not knowing the music.

This is one of those threads that will have you thinking for hours about what you’re doing at home in your studio. Not that we all don’t anyway. These forums are just another part of the whole process, I have concluded. A reality check. Great reading here.

As far as I know, about 99.9 % of the music sold forever and ever has been controlled and distributed by the music industry. So, if music is being (or has ever been) killed, blame "those guys."

The guy at home in his bedroom who is learning and honing YET ONE MORE CRAFT ON TOP OF WHAT HE HAS ALREADY HAD TO LEARN AND HONE can hardly ever be blamed for killing music.

Unless you are simply not creative or have nothing whatsoever to say musically, then it simply boils down to... "now’s your chance!"

In addition to my lecture this morning, I’d like to add that it is good to remember all those artists and bands that have gone before you that were one hit wonders or came extremely close to getting record deals but no cigar. There are thousands (maybe millions) of them out there. People that have had a brush with the industry, but certainly no real financial success. People like me. Maybe you could start a trust fund for some of those folks who were unable to build up any retirement funds over the years and will probably end up homeless, playing an instrument on the street corner with a little tip jar sitting on the sidewalk. Thanks for your time!

While I can agree with many of the views here I think the computer and technology in general have killed music for different reasons. We live in an instant gratification society today. People don't want to take the time to hone their craft or learn an instrument. American Idol is an example of this. Everyone wants to be a STAR instead of pursuing music as a calling. If you asked Mick Jagger or Springsteen they would probably tell you stardom is fun at first but becomes a burden very quickly. One of the horn players I worked with a couple of years ago told me a cool story. He was off to do the last Rolling Stones tour. I asked a couple of questions about Keith and Mick. He said when they rehearse in Toronto Mick leaves at 11 pm to get a good nights sleep. He said Keith likes to hang with the band and continue to jam after the rehearsal is long over. He told me if Keith weren't in the Stones he'd be playing in little bars like the rest of us. He's a bluesman at heart. To me that's what it should really be about. Too many people doing it for he wrong reason.

You don't pick music for a career, it picks you.

Yes, folks used to gather at each other's homes and play. There were barn dances. My parents regularly met at the home of friends and stood around the upright piano singing old songs for entertainment. Most musicians I know aren't earning any more playing honkytonks in central Texas than they did 20 years ago, because the audiences are dwindling. I think many people would just rather sit at home and watch movies or listen to downloaded music. Personally, I am too tired to go out and listen to live music much between my dayjob and 2 gigs each week.

I have had a couple of get togethers this year at my home, inviting the musicians that I regularly gig with over for dinner and some pickin'. It's way more fun than I thought it would be. I am mulling over starting up house concerts.......

bilco

Hmm...great to see this post around...I am still lusting for my great 2 channel preamp...a great outboard reverb unit to get a better vocal song...but instead got myself a yamaha psr arranger workstation and started to do some simple music arrangement..simple music arrangement and recording takes at least another 50% off my songwriting time...not sure if that is the right direction...but...that john hardy is still tempting....

home studios are keeping interest in original music alive.

god knows, the majority of the drivel on the radio and tv aren't doing it!!

look at cd sales.

that should tell you something right there.

So far, i have sold about 1/2 my gear.
Macbook and Mbox and an accoustic guitar
is the way to go.

For me, i have come to realize it isn't so much 'the gear', but just trying to do a studio type business. Even though i have stripped everything down, i still wouldn't mind having the ultimate front-end...but thats it, not 10 different mic-pres, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by theodorestreet:Now the topic title is Home Studios are killing music -- we can also add Professional Studios are killing music. All recorded music is killing music. The internet is killing music. As a stunt, top-level violinist Joshua Bell stood in the lobby of an office building and for an hour played his 3.5 million dollar Strad -- some folks stopped and some folks dropped some money in his open case (about $40 in one hour) -- but most did not recognize the musician.

It was actually the L'Enfant subway stop on Washington DC's metro. He played for close to an hour during the morning commute. The whole thing was arranged by the Washington Post, and there's an article about it on their website. He was almost completely ignored. He made $37 in his case. It gave him a lot of food for thought - me too.

And I think this is an important point. I was just recently talking about this, about how live performance just doesn't seem to be an option people think about any more. I'm not sure why that is - maybe the Internet, maybe TV, I don't know. Sometimes I think it's the ubiquity of music. It's EVERYWHERE. And because it's everywhere, people don't respond emotionally to it in the same way. It's nothing special. You're as likely to hear John Coltrane while you're on hold as Michael Bolton, you know?

Sometimes I wonder if audiences value music the same way they once did. Not sure that they value live performance the way they once did. Recordings were sort-of documentary once upon a time - they commemorated a performance. Now the norm is to make the recording and try and commemorate the recording when you perform live.

I'm just thinking out loud a little.

quote:

The world of busking is unkind

I had to look the word "busking" up! Good one

I did plenty of busking during the early-to-mid 90s when I was really traveling around a lot.

In certain cities - Chicago and New Orleans come to mind as being particularly hospitable to street performers - I would make more in a few hours than the guys who were playing in the clubs all night long.

It was fun times - and probably the only time I actually supported myself playing music.

Of course we were sleeping outdoors quite a bit which saves on the rent somewhat...

Chris

quote:

Originally posted by Amateur Trash:
Love my Tascam 464! Put out seven cds and counting. Don't need or want anything else.

Amateur Trash

Cool! Let's hear some!

mud

quote:

Originally posted by Amateur Trash:
It's all at cdbaby.com under Amateur Trash.

Amateur Trash

Wow, AT, sounds like you've had a rough ride! Just out of curiosity, what's the back story - 25 words or less, please.

mud