Hi. I'm looking to buy one of these preamps and have found out that they both use the same Burr Brown INA 163 op amps.
I am looking for a very detailed and uncoloured pre that will be like a wire with gain and am wondering how these two pres perform sonically? Is there going to be much of a difference since they use very similar electronics?
I live in the UK and can pick up a DMP3 for £104 for 2 channels where as the Rane costs £167 for 1 channel?
I'm leaning more towards the DMP3 because I want 2 channels and 2 MS-1b's would cost me over 3x the price of the DMP3. With the money I'd save I could put it towards a much better vocal mic.

My aim is to get a decent detailed and uncoloured pre and build up a decent collection of mics for mainly vocals.

I'd go for a DMP3, I own one and I'm happy with it. Don't be surprised if you find yourself looking for higher level further down the road. In your case maybe a Millenia HV-3C or something (but that's like a factor 20 of you wanna spend right now).

The DMP3 is good to start out with.

Hi. Thanks for the reply. I've heard loads of people really like the DMP3 becuase of it's uncoloured wire with gain approach. How would some of the more esoteric pres be better? Would they have more detail? I'm not too bothered about the pre colouring the sound but I'd like it to be very detailed.
Wouldn't it make more sense to have a really detailed uncoloured pre and have a reasonable selection of decent mics for different colours?

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Would they have more detail?

Yes they would.

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Wouldn't it make more sense to have a really detailed uncoloured pre and have a reasonable selection of decent mics for different colours?

Different equipment will give you different kinds of colouring. You can't get the sound of a transformer based preamp without a transformer based preamp.

Have you considered ordering the MS1Bs from the US? Even after taxes and shipping I'd think you would save money. They go for about $150 each here.

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Originally posted by dirtyragamuffin:
Have you considered ordering the MS1Bs from the US? Even after taxes and shipping I'd think you would save money. They go for about $150 each here.

Yes I have but wouldn't I need to change the power supply in it to work over here in the UK?

I just got in the Rane tonite and haven't had much time to compare with the DMP3. I cut a bass track through a Countryman DI through the Rane and it sounded really nice...I also cut some Acoustics with the DMP3 and they sound really, really clean...I say get them both!!

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Originally posted by Sparky:
I just got in the Rane tonite and haven't had much time to compare with the DMP3. I cut a bass track through a Countryman DI through the Rane and it sounded really nice...I also cut some Acoustics with the DMP3 and they sound really, really clean...I say get them both!!

I'd would really appreciate hearing more of your findings with these 2 pres. I'm probably going to go for the DMP3 unless the Rane MS-1b is much better?

Please let us know what you find if you record acoustic guitar on the Rane vs. the DMP3.

Thanks,
bilco

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Originally posted by bilco:
Please let us know what you find if you record acoustic guitar on the Rane vs. the DMP3.

Thanks,
bilco

I am just sucking balls at mic'ing this acoustic right...I was gonna post a comparison but I'll do it when I have the right mic positioning...

I did do a quick comparison where I put two AT 4041's side-by-side at about the 6th fret...one going into the Rane, the other the DMP...Each sucked in its own right because of the positioning, but there is no doubt the two are very, very different...I can't conclude until I get a decent source sound, but from what I can tell, the Rane is a little softer in handling the mids whereas the DMP3 really digs into them.

I have come to the conclusion that the best mic'ing is over-the-shoulder...I'll be back at it tomorrow so hopefully I'll post a couple A-B comparisons...

Cool thanks! I'd like to hear how they both handle vocals.

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Originally posted by Sparky:

quote:

Originally posted by bilco:
Please let us know what you find if you record acoustic guitar on the Rane vs. the DMP3.

Thanks,
bilco

I am just sucking balls at mic'ing this acoustic right...I was gonna post a comparison but I'll do it when I have the right mic positioning...

I did do a quick comparison where I put two AT 4041's side-by-side at about the 6th fret...one going into the Rane, the other the DMP...Each sucked in its own right because of the positioning, but there is no doubt the two are very, very different...I can't conclude until I get a decent source sound, but from what I can tell, the Rane is a little softer in handling the mids whereas the DMP3 really digs into them.

I have come to the conclusion that the best mic'ing is over-the-shoulder...I'll be back at it tomorrow so hopefully I'll post a couple A-B comparisons...

I am hoping that a transparent preamp makes a difference when recording an acoustic guitar. I got a better sound recording mine through a Behringer mixer and an SM57 than I do through an SM81 and an RNP. I have a PT comparison file with dozens of experiments recording my voice and separately acoustic guitar with different mic/preamp combos. At some point I got a nice high end sheen with the SM81 and a cheaper preamp, but I didn't notate which preamp it was and now I can't recreate that sound. No matter where I mic the acoustic, the RNP is determined to emphasize the boxy mid frequencies. Over the shoulder does seem to come closer than anything else I have tried, but the room is not treated, so that is not really an option yet. For what it is worth, I also tried the SM81 through my Mbox Focusrite preamp and I am not all that blown away by that sound either.

I know it is my lack of mic placement knowledge much more than it is the gear. It is frustrating because the guitar sounds really good in the room, but I can't seem to duplicate what I hear acoustically when I record it.

bilco

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At some point I got a nice high end sheen with the SM81 and a cheaper preamp, but I didn't notate which preamp it was and now I can't recreate that sound.

Little piece of mildly related advice...stuff like that just happens to me all the time. Some scratch track I nailed some tone just throwing a mic in front of the cab at low volume...whatever pre it's plugged into...and I never truly get that synergy between mic/pre/string age/placement/performance again.

I've got beautiful sounding acoustic gtr tracks done in stereo with a TLM193, AT 4033, into the DMP3 that I can't duplicate now with my Millenias and sm81...at the same time, I've got an sm81>LA610 lead acoustic track that I literally saved the first demo take--great take, but I also could never quite get THAT tone again. I didn't try too hard, because the part was there, but still. I'm just saying. Stuff like that happens.

Get a decent tone and record. Sometimes it's a magical tone...but, IMO, that's just something in the air. Literally--Kevin Killen was talking at Gearslutz about Jude Cole's vocals--how he used different mics for the album they did because different mics sounded different on different days-as did his voice.

That said...I didn't really like the RNP, but found the opposite--it was kinda scooped sounding to my ear. Tight transient response, though.

I stuck the Rode Classic over my shoulder and recorded a little snippet of Ac track I am recording. One with the Rane, the other with the DMP3...

www3.telus.net/CarsonCounty/AcRane.mp3
www3.telus.net/CarsonCounty/AcDMP3.mp3

I think they're pretty close myself...The Rane track is a touch louder I think so factor that in. Listening on a crappy pair of computer speakers, there really is not much difference.

I am going to do some vocals with my Re20 and I can also upload some snippets of both too...

Here is a snippet I recoreded with my Dad playing while moved the mic around...Rode Classic over his shoulder into the DMP3...THIS is what the guitar really sounds like...And I CAN'T seem to duplicate this..I have been trying for the last three days and I am completely buggered...

Ac DMP3 Rode Classic Dad

quote:

Originally posted by Sparky:
I stuck the Rode Classic over my shoulder and recorded a little snippet of Ac track I am recording. One with the Rane, the other with the DMP3...

www3.telus.net/CarsonCounty/AcRane.mp3
www3.telus.net/CarsonCounty/AcDMP3.mp3

I think they're pretty close myself...The Rane track is a touch louder I think so factor that in. Listening on a crappy pair of computer speakers, there really is not much difference.

I am going to do some vocals with my Re20 and I can also upload some snippets of both too...

Wow thanks for the mp3's. There really is very little difference that I can hear so far! I will listen more closley tomorrow. Is there any way I could download those mp3 clips to my computer because I have a different computer in my studio.
Can't wait to audition the vocal clips! Thanks for your help!

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Originally posted by dickiefunk:
Is there any way I could download those mp3 clips to my computer because I have a different computer in my studio.

Just right-mouse and save-as...

Holy lick I think I have gotten it...It only took me a week...I took some pics for my fellow "non-pros-gonna-die-trying-because-I-have-been-doing-this-since-I-was-12" colleagues

First pic
Front View

quote:

Originally posted by Sparky:
I stuck the Rode Classic over my shoulder and recorded a little snippet of Ac track I am recording. One with the Rane, the other with the DMP3...

www3.telus.net/CarsonCounty/AcRane.mp3
www3.telus.net/CarsonCounty/AcDMP3.mp3

I think they're pretty close myself...The Rane track is a touch louder I think so factor that in. Listening on a crappy pair of computer speakers, there really is not much difference.

I am going to do some vocals with my Re20 and I can also upload some snippets of both too...

Posted 05-05-07 05:15 PM Hide Post
Here is a snippet I recoreded with my Dad playing while moved the mic around...Rode Classic over his shoulder into the DMP3...THIS is what the guitar really sounds like...And I CAN'T seem to duplicate this..I have been trying for the last three days and I am completely buggered...

I am listening to the Rane and DMP3 clips and also to the Rode Classic over the shoulder clip. Wow, they all sound fine to me. I think maybe I hear a slight difference between the Rane and the DMP3, but I don't really have a preference. The over the shoulder thing is so strange; that's how my Martin Shenandoah sounds best, but the room isn't treated, so I keep looking for a close mic technique that sounds good. Everything I try is boxy.

I guess I'll get some rockwool and some of those $30 do it yourself bags and build some treatment. If over the shoulder sounds the best, maybe we shouldn't resist it......


Thanks for sharing those clips. One of those little preamps is in my future, once I get past my daughter's wedding....

bilco

Front view... Front View

Mic over the shoulder about 8 inches above the guitar top-edge... Top view body

Mic about 8 inches facing straight down about 6th fret... Top Neck View

The mics are almost exactly 24 inches apart which follows the 3-to-1 rule.

I completely fluked off the angle but you can see how the mics are both almost perfectly 45 degrees forming a V ...Side Body View

Side Neck View

Screw the Rode, the AT's did a better job...

The biggest thing that changed everything is how I was holding the guitar...Looking at the Front View you can see the guitar is over my left leg...HUGE!!! The guitar position changed everything...

From the test recording I made, the phase-correlation is the best I have ever gotten...Mono is not that bad as well...The science is almost scary but it all fits and works amazing...the key is getting that damn shoulder mic right - thanx to moving the guitar onto my left leg, it made all the difference.

I should note that these previous mp3's blow chunks compared to what I am getting now -->AC Stereo