I just bought the Millennia Origin channel strip which has both the HV and MB premaps as well as their "twin topology" TLC and NSEQ modules. My unit seems to have a very wimpy output. For example, it is useless with my SM81. With both the input gain and output level fully clockwise (with EQ & Comp disengaged) using balanced outs/in to my VS1680, the SM81 about 12 inches from the 12th fret of my Martin D-18 tilted slightly towards the neck, I can barely get a -12db reading on the VS (without turning the input knob from the full counter-clockwise line level position) - and that's with the HV (solid state) preamp. The MB (vacuum tube) is even worse.
Dot, I know you've used the HV an MB which are the same pres used in the Millennia STT-1 Origin. Does this seem like it is operating correctly? I called Millennia and spoke to Larry Boyle who told me that even the +40db level of the MB pre should be plenty of gain unless I'm using ribbons or other very low output mics.
If I then plug the same mic/cable/ into my ART Prochannel, I have gobs of gain, so I've eliminated the mic as the problem. Also if I connect my AT4050 to the Millennia, I can get good levels into the VS1680, but again, the gain & output are both nearly pegged. If I use compression and need makeup gain, I'm living on the edge.
The unit sounds fantastic with the AT4050, but the SM81 is useless without adding external gain on the recorder. BTW - I've also done this test running unbalanced connections, which is even worse (there's 6db lower output). I've also run unbalanced into an ART D/IO into S/PDIF on the VS1680 - same results.
I'm not a technical engineer, but have done a lot of recording with many preamps, but have never come across anything like this before.
Is this just the nature of preamps that only have +40 & +50db gain (plus the +10db max output level?
Or does this seem like there's a problem with the unit?
I'm about ready to ship this back to Millennia for them to evaluate. I'm sitting here perplexed. All the great reviews and tons of people happily using them... Am I just an idiot or does it seem like there's a problem? I understand you're not looking at the machine, but if have any comments on how it should work with an SM81 and AT4050 for that matter, I'd appreciate it. (I don't have the -10db pad on the SM81 engaged).

Larry

Jeez, Larry, you've got me stumped. There's too many variables - w/ 81 - cable - Origin - cable - VS - for me to diagnose anything without being on site with the system. There might be some sort of impedance that's not matching or it could be a pin anywhere in the chain that should be hot or cold and vice versa.

I am going to the studio tomorrow and will check out the 81 w/ two Millennia units and see if we get any clues.

I'm figuring the most likely cause is user error, but it's tough to tell from here.

Dan Richards
Digital Pro Sound
The Listening Sessions

[This message was edited by Dot on 02-02-03 at 10:09 PM.]

Larry, one thing I can tell you - not related to the 81 problem - is that if you are running the Millennia into the VS1680 via the XLR inputs of the VS1680 - and, hence, the preamps of the VS1680 - you are not getting anywhere near the depth, dimension and imagery capable of the Millennia.

How's that for a run-on sentence. : )

The slew rate on the 1680's pres are sooo much slower than the Millennia - and plus you're passing a top-end transformerless pre through a cheap transformer. This is not a good thing.

I'd highly recommend you look into a good A/D converter.

My 2¢.

Dan Richards
Digital Pro Sound
The Listening Sessions

Thanks Dot,

The vendor I bought it from said something about impedence mismatching, but I don't know how to evaluate that or even what you could do with that.

I have also tested this going unbalanced into an ART D/IO converter into S/PDIF in the VS1680. I can turn the gain on the ART D/IO up to get a good level and it sounds fantastic (much better than going through the VS pres - as you noted).
But if down the road I upgrade to something like the Rosetta which has no additional gain, the SM81 is useless on this unit. (My tests without the D/IO were done using balanced out to line in on the VS1680 (XLR/TRS cable), and for unbalanced going out to in using a TS phone cable to an input channel. I'm not plugging into the XLR input on the VS as those are for mics.

User error? Could be, I guess, but what else can I be doing wrong? I disconnect it and hook it into the ART Prochannel and there is plenty of output.

If this means anything - even with the AT4050 - singing loudly or even shouting into the that mic about 12 inches away barely lights up the OL (overload LED). When this first begins to light, it is registering about +18db according to the manual. And again, this is with the input and output levels fully clockwise. But I get a useable level with the AT4050, but not much margin for comp makeup gain when using the MB (tube) pre section.
Alright I'm repeating myself...

I'd be very curious to see what happens with your experiment if you get the opportunity. Thanks very much!

Larry

[This message was edited by Tightrope on 02-02-03 at 09:32 PM.] - Spelling!!

[This message was edited by Tightrope on 02-02-03 at 09:34 PM.]

Well, we have the M-2B, HV-3D, SM81 and AT 4050 at the studio. I'll play around a bit and see if I see any patterns emerging - as far as gain or the lack of gain.

Dan Richards
Digital Pro Sound
The Listening Sessions

Larry, if you want to try a process of elimination before you zero in on the Millennia - I'd look at the SM81.

If you want, you can email me. I'm just down the way in SC. We have a pair of SM81's brand new from Shure here. You could send your 81 down here and we could test it out.

Dan Richards
Digital Pro Sound
The Listening Sessions