Popmann,

Actually the old versions are in the redesign stage. They were just to expensive to build. Not only were they using good parts, but the chassis work and wiring was based around me building them at home with hand tools and free time, not in a commercial sense. There's about 8 hours more expensive labor involved in one of the old preamps then a new NV.

Wonder how these'll be priced. Mmm look...variable HPF.

New Neve Pre

BTW...since we have an engineer type hangin, Dan, the ISA428 gets super hot--that's gotta be design flaw, no? I mean, there's a warmth to the NV...and my tube UA...but, then the Demeter I used you could fry eggs on.

What gives with this hot preamp thing? I always blamed it on tubes...but--no tubes in a 428...know what I mean?

I agree with Dan on this one, except I need to add that all low level pres are not the same. While Mackie pres will be not all that bad, some of the cheap pres by the likes of Roland or Yamaha will butcher your recordings, so you need to be careful about your cheap pres. Once you get into the high end its almost all different flavors of good or great.

quote:

Originally posted by dusty:

quote:

Originally posted by Popmann:

I will never record an electric guitar through a SS preamp again.

I will.

-Dusty

Me too!! Just got a Royer R-121 and been running it through the MP-2NV. Pure joy on guitar cabs. Haven't tried that combo yet on acoustic guitar, but the C4's through the GR on acoustics is fan-freakin-tastic IMO. Nothing wrong at all with sending geetars through SS preamps.

Nothing wrong with sending them through tube pre's either. Different colors, different results. It's all good. Viva La Difference!

quote:

Originally posted by Popmann:
Wonder how these'll be priced. Mmm look...variable HPF.

New Neve Pre

BTW...since we have an engineer type hangin, Dan, the ISA428 gets super hot--that's gotta be design flaw, no? I mean, there's a warmth to the NV...and my tube UA...but, then the Demeter I used you could fry eggs on.

What gives with this hot preamp thing? I always blamed it on tubes...but--no tubes in a 428...know what I mean?

The new Neve looks interesting.

I've experienced the hot 428 as well. The GR gets toasty as does the AMR VMP-2 (which gets REALLY toasty). I've got all my pre's in one rack and each is separated by at least 1U worth of space or more. Definitely helps keep the place warm in the winter when they're all running.

I'm sure someone will correct me (they always do...)

But class A typically runs hotter in most applications than class AB...for example, old VOX AC30s and their derivatives always ran a lot hotter than a comparative class AB amp...I think its because in Class A, the output devices are ON all the time, whereas in Class AB, they cycle between idle and saturation...Again, I'm no EE, but it would seem logical that something running class A will run hotter, be it preamp output chips or EL84 tubes...there's just no time/cyclic chance for a momentary cool down period.

I remember reading an article about the Vox AC 100 (Super Beatle model)...class A beast running 4 EL34s...that had to be abandoned because they kept catching fire....

The 428 sure does cook. I never leave it on for more than 2-3 hours... I'm sure it could withstand more, but I like to play it safe with expensive gear that plays such a key role in my setup!

I have actually burned (meaning went "oh shit") on the end of an XLR cable that plugs in to the mic. The heat traveled 10' up the cable!

One easy to spot "design flaw" is the lack of vents on top of the unit, I would think. It has vents on the side and a huge heat sink on the back (that some people modify to make larger!).

But the thing sure does sound good.

****

The heat of the ISA 428 is in a completly different league of any other non-tube class A shit I've seen.

-Dusty

Here's what I'm wondering...does a Neve board with 72 preamps force you to bump the AC down 20 degrees lower? Or is it all the individual power supplies?

I mean, the little DMP3 gets warm to the touch...as does the great River...as does the Kurzweil Rumour for that matter...but, if Dusty's burning himself on a 10ft cable connected to it...I certainly yelled a bit pulling the XLR out of the Demeter...

Like computer CPUs run warm...but, then when they're being pushed require active cooling solutions. Some, active cooling AND streamlined ventalation...which is all IMO BS design. In CPU's case, it's because they push the clock speed higher than they should to sell the chip for more $$. But, what's up with the pres?

Maybe the NV is helped by the "better steel" Dan referred to--making the whole thing effectively a heat sink. Does the ISA use cheap, thin metal for it's housing?

Hey Dan Kennedy. You mentioned the Sowter trannies being good. Do you have any dealings or comments on the trannies from Cinemag? ( if you can) Thanks...

I haven't seen a 428 in the flesh, so I can't comment on the effectiveness of the air flow.

The better steel, or thicker as the case may be, is more effective for a couple of reasons, magnetic shielding and mechanical support and strength.

Did you ever look at the build quality of something like a DBX 160 style compressor? Barely able to support itself off the front rack mounts. This is not a problem with the NV.

I do have venting to allow airflow, but it does get warm.

And yeah you bet about the air in a control room being needed to offset the heat load of a big console. It can be significant. Usually the power supplies are in another environmentally controlled room, which does reduce the load on the air in the control room.

Gear like the NV puts all the dissipation in one box. The big old aluminum front panel does help in the heatsinking too.

I like the Cinemags too, there one of the good 6!

quote:

Originally posted by Dan Kennedy:
I like the Cinemags too, there one of the good 6!

Assuming Jensen and Lundahl are two more, who are the remaining two?

quote:

Originally posted by dusty:
The 428 sure does cook.
The heat of the ISA 428 is in a completly different league of any other non-tube class A shit I've seen.

-Dusty

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think my 428 baked my Demeter. When I first got the 428 I dumbly installed it right underneath the Demeter. The next day a few hours into a session I felt the 428 and couldn't hold my hand on it for more than a couple of seconds. The Demeter above which was on but not being used was very hot also so I pulled it out, move the 428 to the top and screwed the Demeter underneath with an empty space below. The next day I discovered Channel 2 out on the Demeter.
So a few days ago I called Demeter and who do I get but James D. himself. A jolly chap who thought I probably cooked something. He said just send it back and he would install updated chips (Burr Brown) and new tubes. Went out today. I bought it used so I don't mind a rebuild to spec. Buttt I plan to install a whisper fan nonetheless.

quote:

Originally posted by Dan Kennedy:
I like the Cinemags too, there one of the good 6!

Thanks alot Dan..!

Well, I kinda pulled the number 6 out of my ass, but certainly Jensen, Lundahl, Cinemag, Sowter, Haufe, TAB-Funkenwerk, Carnhill, and a place in Chicago I can't remember right now...

But the number is pretty small.

UTC

I'm gonna try out my new Mesa V-Twin tube pre-amp on vocals with a dynamic.
Allen

quote:

Originally posted by Dan Kennedy:
Well, I kinda pulled the number 6 out of my a...

LOL!

Dan,

I was kind of relieved that the Sytek mic pre got a nice mention in your early post...since that is what we chose to upgrade our front end...

Art DPS, Art Tube MP, and Sytek Mpx4Aii...so, what do you guys think should be my next upgrade in mic pre?? I feel like I'd like something analog like the UA LA610 that Pop has...my best mic is an AKG C414 Buls...and I have use now anytime I want it of a Newmann U87 that a good friend purchased and wants to lend us...thoughts? RD

quote:

I feel like I'd like something analog like the UA LA610 that Pop has

Pop is on the fence about the pre...FWIW...there's no doubt, though, that the compressor is a (vocal) sound you'll recognize.

I keep waiting for DOT to send one of those Sebatron pres to compare it to...

To be honest...the 87's got character a plenty. Sytec will be clean gain. I'd look to the compressor--make a lot bigger diff. What VS are you on? If you're VSF3/UA bundle equipped, you can probably ignore that.