|
|
|
|
Go
|
New
|
Find
|
Notify
|
Tools
|
Reply
|
|
|
5th kyu |
I'm new here, so I apologize if this is the wrong place to post this.
I've been working with a producer to record a 5-song EP. I've paid him his fee in full. Since July when we started recording, he has cancelled 10 scheduled sessions. During the weeks following these scheduled sessions, he's claimed that work is being done on the instrumentation of the songs. Last week, I told him I wanted to come into the studio and hear the music he's been recording. He told me that I could not go into the studio and hear the tracks because: 1) I had only paid for a two-track master (I wasn't asking for copies of the tracks) 2) The engineer had "secret" process of EQ-ing that he didn't want me stealing, and the engineer, according to the producer, is only eq-ing drums tracks (which I have yet to hear) 3) "No pro studio will let you hear anything until the engineer and producer are happy with it and satisfied that the music is done." Do I have a legitmate complaint here? I am planning on asking for my full $3,500 back because they are, apparently, refusing to show me the progess on what I have paid for. I have to assume, given that they are adamant that I cannot hear what they've done in the last 4 months, that NOTHING has been done. Thanks for any advice. |
||
|
|
5th kyu |
That's a tricky one. In the future it may be worth drawing up an agreement so you have something to refer to.
I would suggest you have a friendly conversation with him if he's someone you feel you can talk to(don't be threatening but be clear and firm). Ask by what date he intends to finish your ep. If he's vague/evasive and won't give you a clear answer I would say you have a good reason for asking for your money back. You may also want to be clear with him when you need the job done by. |
|||
|
|
2nd kyu |
Holy smokes! You definitely have a problem here. It does appear that you are being ripped off. Big time.
But from the beginning, you went about this wrong. You didn't do enough study of studio and recording practices before you dove into this. You were totally wrong to pay that money up front. Most clients are expected to pay in full when the recording is finished -- and then you receive your masters. (Some studios do charge about half up front...) The fact that this so-called producer accepted all your money up front AND cancelled ten(!!!) sessions indicates he is unprofessional and disreputable. Here in Nashville I have come across con-men posing as producers and it seems you have stumbled across one there in Idaho. In Nashville these con-men take advantage of naive youngsters who come to town to be stars, and often take advantage of them sexually as well as financially. Let me refute his three reasons for not letting you hear YOUR music. (It is YOURS. You paid for it!) 1) You paid for recordings. You are entitled to hear them. 2) Secret EQ? That is bullshit. He's playing you for a fool. 3) This one is pure bullshit, too. If he lied to me, saying "no pro studio will let you hear anything until the engineer and producer are happy with it..." I'd bust his fucking nose. You're going to need a lawyer to get your money back. This crook has taken you for a ride. I would be very surprised if he has any tracks recorded at all. You are to blame, though! You didn't do your homework before giving this guy all that money. You should have been present during the recording process, at least long enough to make sure this clown knew what he was doing. He took you for a sucker. And you let him. Best wishes on getting your money back. I doubt you'll ever see any recordings. Or any of the money. Better luck next time. There are a lot of good books out there on recording methods. Educate yourself. |
|||
|
Yondan |
Hank has nailed it, I'm afraid. Make one more phone call or show up in person. If they blow you off, tell them you are getting a lawyer unless they let you hear the work they have done to this point. YOU HAVE ALREADY PAID FOR IT, IT IS YOURS. And then, get a lawyer and go after these guys.
|
|||
|
|
Calm Confidence Radiater Sandan |
This just makes me sad...and mad both. sort of like watching that show "Holmes on homes" where the contractor comes in and fixes the job where the previous one F'ed up.
You can't undo the mistakes you made up front: paying in full, not getting some testimonials, not getting in-progress demos, est finish date, etc. this guy's stalling you. nothing is being done. 5 songs should take about a week or two on a casual pace. Regarding his replies: 1. BS, you pay to end up with a 2-track master..and everything in between. He's trying to bamboozle you. 2. BS. there are no secrets. Nothing can be applied to another project anyhow. EQ'ing takes minutes. Since July he's still EQ'ing drum tracks? 3. wrong again. First off, no pro studio would cancel you repeatedly, take that long to do the songs and mention any of the above. The other thing is that if indeed they were "perfecting" your tracks and truly pros, you wouldn't be paying $700 per song. best not to tip your hat to them that you're wising up. Demand your money back right now, but not before getting your case straight. If it were me, I'd be asking them for as many explanations, logs, hours spent, track counts completed, etc( like the above BS) so they dig themselves in deep. Then, I'd be as professionally threatening as possible, documenting all of what has been done and said. Get some real professional studios to document their advice for you too. Build a case. that's my second favorite song of all time...everything else is tied for first though. |
|||
|
|
Mod Kyudan  |
Sounds like you're being taken for a ride. But you also made a major goof buy paying the total upfront before the services were rendered.
What you're paying these guys to do is deemed "work for hire." Which basically means you're the boss. Refusing to play you any tracks is the equivalent of a producer who's been hired and paid by a record company refusing to play any tracks (finished or in-progress) for the record company. It might be understandable, to a degree, if you were only the artist and the record company was footing the bill - and the engineer and producer were really big time with a proven track record, and felt they needed more time before the tracks were presentable. But since you're paying the bill, you're essentially also the record company. If you wanna hear tracks, they gotta play 'em - since you're the guy (company) who hired them. Who are these guys? Do they have a website or any songs online? They must be a big deal if they've got an engineer with "secret process EQ-ing." I'd love to hear some of their stuff. --------------------------- Dan Richards The Listening Sessions --------------------------- Pro Audio Consulting (866) 409-3686 |
|||
|
|
Shodan |
And another thing, why would he ( the producer) would even "dig himself into a hole" by trying to "finish" the tracks without your approval? I mean, all that " work" he say he has done would be of naught, if the end results doesn't satify YOU.! As Dot pointed out, you are the "Man"..in this case. You are the one paying.If it was me producing, I think I would call you in periodically to make sure I wouldn't have to backtrack and redo stuff! Good luck..( shesssH)..
 |
|||
|
|
2nd kyu |
...unless you signed a contract saying he could do this to you.
You didn't sign a contract like that, did you? |
|||
|
|
4th kyu |
Just curious, where is this studio located?
Craig |
|||
|
|
Hoser Yondan  |
This is a bummer. You should at the least, have rec'd a few mp3's asking "are we on the right track?" Pretty common stuff.
I've given money upfront to the studio we're tracking in, but this was usually just good faith and I could have just as easily walked in, setup and recorded w/o any money down, as at the end of the day, the studio holds the masters until paid in full. the supah dupah secret EQ settings is just laughable, if it wasn't for you getting taken by this guy. I think it's time for you to raise your level of vexation with this knob and say "i've asked around, talked to over a dozen "producers" and you're the only one with these F&^#UP excuses. I've already contacted my lawyer, now give me my masters or money back, NOW!" Good luck. |
|||
|
|
Shodan |
If it were me, I'd want to get my money back, end the business relationship with the asshole and go somewhere else. Besides the bullshit he's feeding you, he's cancelled 10 sessions? I'd fire his butt. Or, get the masters as is, and some of your money back. I assume you paid in full for a finished product.
With all his secret voodoo, did he have to blindfold you when you were there tracking? Sorry to hear you having to go through all this. This is not the norm at all. Steve |
|||
|
|
Mod Sandan  |
Tough to comment on too much with out knowing all the details and getting both sides of the story, but if things are as you say, all the answers you got are silly.
I recommend you contact a local attorney. Then contact the producer and tell him you want to schedule a meeting so the three of you can discuss the situations. You can also ask the producer if he would be interested in refunding your money and full and ending your professional relationship as a way to resolve the situation. I recommend that you stay VERY professional about everything. Take the high road. If you are getting jerked around there are options available to you. |
|||
|
Yondan |
I think these guys are being too easy.
You have been ripped off, period. You must take action now - this person could disappear at any time. Okay, the reality is that there might not be anything you can do (short of whipping ass or at least showing up with the threat to do so). However, that doesn't mean he knows that and you sould make every attempt to threaten legal action using every resource available to you. First, I would do some homework about him and your rights. I would contact an attorney and seek advice, and if nothing else, pay someone to write a letter if you aren't up to it. Idaho Consumer Protection Law Firms I would send this guy a certified letter threatening him with the Better Busness Bureau (BBB), Federal Trade Commission (FTC), Bureau of Consumer Protection, National Bureau of Consumer Affairs, and your state agencies (Every state has agencies for the protection of consumers. All it took was a couple of minutes to find out a few options for Idaho, which are listed below). I'd also mention the IRS for good measure. Idaho Consumer Protection Manual Idaho Comsumer Protection Act Idaho RUles of Consumer Protection Don't wait another minute. Don't assume he will come around and do the right thing. Take action and be determined, authoritative, and downright mean if you have to. Don't feel up to it? PM me all of his information and I'll draft you a letter. This guy's a scum bag - don't let him get away with it. I'm sorry to respectfully disagree with Ronan on this one - you aren't dealing with a professional (unless you mean professional con-artist). Take the road that will have the greatest chance of getting your money back - you don't want to work with this guy. BTW, I hope your material is copyrighted. Madguitrst has left the Forums.......but not before committing acts designed to offend the senses. |
|||
|
|
5th kyu |
Thanks for the reply, Bassman. Basically, I had a friend of mine - who is a professional collections person - go to this guy's house and tell him I wanted my money back. And I finally got to talk to the engineer and studio owner, who, up to this point, this "producer" has prevented me from speaking to. I've set up a meeting between myself, my attorney, a couple witnesses, this "producer" and the studio owners. I'm bringing along a contract that my attorney wrote for this very occasion. Thanks again for the reply! |
|||
|
|
5th kyu |
Thanks for replying, Hank! You basically answered the only question I had left, which was that keeping the artist out of the studio until the tracks were finished was the norm. I was of the opinion that it was the exact opposite - the the artist should be informed of everything and that it is almost a requirement - but I wanted some third-party verification if it comes to taking this idiot to court. I had no idea not to pay money up front. I figured I would pay half to start and half on delivery, but I was led to believe that the recording process was almost finished, so I paid the other half in good faith. I did research this company and found nothing wrong, even though there was very little information available about the producer. I guess I am a little too trusting. The engineer for the project seems much more forthcoming about everything and told me on the telephone this afternoon that I would be welcome in the studio at any time as long as I make an appointment, and that there was no reason that I couldn't listen to what I had paid for. He did mention that there were some things he would like to fix on the tracks, but the fact that he had no problem letting me in there eased my mind somewhat. I refuse to work with the producer anymore, but I am having a meeting with the engineer and studio owner. I'm bringing along my attorney and a contract that I will expect to get signed or the deal is off. |
|||
|
|
5th kyu |
Took the words right out of my mouth!  I actually did call the producer this afternoon. He didn't answer his phone (I wonder why), but I told him in the message that he had an hour to call me back or the next person he would hear from on Monday morning would be my attorney. The engineer called me back about two hours later, wanting to know what was going on. It was my first "producer-less" conversation with him, and there were some eye-opening moments in that conversation, I'll tell you what!Thanks for the reply! |
|||
|
|
5th kyu |
Thanks for the reply, Kel! My attorney was pretty impressed with everything I did keep track of: logs of dates, times, and content of phone calls; print-outs of all e-mailed communication; receipts for money paid; text messages saved on my cell phone... I'm thorough, if nothing else. Thanks again for the reply! This is the kind of info I have been looking for! |
|||
|
|
5th kyu |
When I talked to the engineer this afternoon, I likened what I had been told about not being allowed in the studio to someone getting a house built: I asked him, would a person go to a contractor, tell them that they wanted a house built - in a kind of general fashion, like, "I'd like a two-bedroom house" - pay the contractor the money in full, and then be okay with the contractor keeping the home owner away from the house until the contractor deemed it "finished"? Hell, no. He seemed rather flabbergasted by what I'd been told, too. So, I'll probably finish this project working with him and tell the producer to go take a flying leap at rolling donut in a gravel driveway.  Oh, and engineer didn't seem to know anything about a secret EQ process, either. And he'd been working on bass, not drums. Heh. |
|||
|
|
5th kyu |
That's what I asked him when he told me this bit of tripe. I mean, if I'm not happy with it, doesn't that mean that they would just have to go back and do it again for the same money? That's what his e-mails to me stated. |
|||
|
|
5th kyu |
No. No, I didn't sign a contract. The contract that I did get from the producer was actually plagiarized from a web site I found online by Googling the first sentence of the contract. I refused to sign it. Had my attorney write one that suited me and was fair all around. I'm not out to rip off some studio or anything, but I do want what I paid for. It was a verbal agreement to start with, which I've heard tell isn't, necessarily, wrong. But I've realized it's not smart. But, Like I said, I have a tendency to be way too trusting. Heh. Thanks for the reply! |
|||
|
| Previous Topic | Next Topic | powered by eve community | Page 1 2 3 4 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
|||
| Site | Studio Forums | ||
| Servlet | eve2da006 | ||
| Version | 1.2.22 build 9062 | ||
| Module | Forums 4.0.3 | ||
| Stylesheet | "SF Style 1" | ||
| Wordlet Set | "Default Wordlet Set" | ||
|
