So my wonderful wife finally gave me the green light to get my first proper amp last week. Since I'm mostly an acoustic player, I've never had one so I'm pretty excited about it. I picked up a used deluxe and I love this thing. The only thing I'm wondering, though, is why it's breaking up on the clean channel with the volume on 3. I mean, I realize that the tubes are going to overdrive as you turn them up, and it sounds great, but I thought I could get past 3 before this happens. So I'm wondering if, A, I'm not setting it up properly or, B, if the tubes need to be replaced. So anyone that knows this stuff that wants to help a brother out, I'd appreciate it.

Lance

You've left something out...what kind of "deluxe"?

The 65reissue should get well about 3 before breaking up...but, the "hot rod" and "blues" deluxes will likely break up sooner.

A humbucker will make them all break a LOT faster than the single coils they were designed for.

If the power tubes are going, it will break sooner, too, but I'd doubt that's the situation...it won't lower the headroom THAT much.

quote:

You've left something out...what kind of "deluxe"?

Sorry, it's a hot rod. I'm using single coils and going straight in. I guess I just thought I could get halfway up before I got full on overdrive. Don't get me wrong, it sounds great, I just wish I could get a good clean sound as well. Iwas just wondering if I was doing something wrong.

Lance

Lance, if it's used, it could be that the previous owner installed a tube set graded for early break-up. What brands of tubes are in there?

Otherwise, I agree with pop--but on the other hand unless you're hitting it with a really hot signal, IIRC a HR Deluxe should still be clean at 3...

Hey Dirty, I'll check. I know it has a new speaker so the tubes might be a possibility.

Lance

I'm not too familiar with the Deluxe, but I have a Blues Jr. Are you sure that you're using the proper knob for volume? On the Blues Jr., the "Volume" knob is actually more like a gain knob, and the "Master" is what controls the volume. I'm not sure how the Deluxe is laid out, but I'd recommend barely cracking the "Drive" knob and then experimenting with different amounts of "Volume" and "Master". You should be able to get a beautiful clean tone out of that badboy and it might be that you're just going about it the wrong way.

Of course, it could be the tubes.

Well, the Deluxe has a clean channel as well as an overdrive channel. The clean side has a volume knob while the dirty channel has an overdrive and a master. What Dirty said kind of makes sense to me, having read that alot of people prefer the tone of power tube distortion over preamp tubes. Which, by the way, the break up on the clean channel sounds great. Maybe tomorrow I'll try setting the drive on the dirty channel low and turn up the master and see if I can get a higher clean volume that way. It's funny, though, cause I really don't need to turn it up past 3 since it's plenty loud there, ok, maybe 4.

Lance

quote:

Lance, if it's used, it could be that the previous owner installed a tube set graded for early break-up.

+1

quote:

Lance, if it's used, it could be that the previous owner installed a tube set graded for early break-up.



+1

Well, if that's possible, whether they did or not, are there tubes graded for late break up?

Lance

You're not pushing the power section at 3. But 6L6GC is what you want there for headroom, I think.

I don't know anything about tubes rated for early breakup...is that a GrooveTubes "rating" thing? I order a JJ or a Jan it is what it is. I'm becoming a HUGE fan of putting a low output tube in V1...I've got a 12AU7 in my Fralin, but it takes the volume down a bit too much. I'll get an AT7 this week to try as well as a 5751. The AU7 was KILLER in my Bassman, which had a lot of volume to spare.

I do want to point out, though...it being your first tube amp...I don't know how much it's breaking up, but--you know it's not gonna be sparkly clean very loud, right? Certainly not in a 1x12 Deluxe cab. That's what 120wt Twins are for. Even the 65wt TwinRI can rattle walls and stay clean. Does the HRD have a tube rectifier? That'll lower the headroom substantially. And make it sound spongy and great.

it's very possible, that the previous owner put some 'hot' preamp tubes..

and/or power, for that matter.

30 watts isn't a whole lot, but you should be able to push that sucker a lot harder than '3' and get clean...

tubes are an easy (and relatively inexpensive) fix...

at the very least, find out exactly what the tubes are, do the homework, and determine if that is the factor.

as pop said, a 12AT7 in the V1 position, will give the most clean headroom, but tubes by themselves isn't the entire answer....

you have to factor in the way they are biased.

a 'clean' tube, biased too cold, will sound like shit no matter what.

probably worth it to take it to a technician to make sure the bias is correctly set...
at the same time, determine the tube viability.

any decent tech, will have a tube tester, and can tell you whether or not the tube is in spec, before you ever even spend another dime on one.

You only have to rebias for power tubes.

I'm still thinking there's something else going on here. Are you plugging into the hi or lo input when you can only get it to 3?

How about the speaker
what was installed and how it rated?
i believe you said it was new
if not the bias of the power tubes should be checked
is it cathode or fixed bias?
weber vst makes atube tester that would help to see if you bias is close

quote:

Are you plugging into the hi or lo input when you can only get it to 3?

I think the high or input 1 or something

Also, I'm not using any pedals or anything. Just my tele or Dano straight in. As far as speaker ratings or bias, that's why I'm here, I don't have a clue.

Lance

Lance,

I think many (most?) people buying that amp would want it to do just what you're describing.

A few things to consider:

If you want power tubes that have more headroom and will break up later (will be a bit louder too), consider a pair of KT66. The amp will sound bigger and a bit harder.

If you combine them with an input tube with a lower power rating, such as the 12aT7, you'll definitely get cleaner and it may balance out well.

I personally like that type of combination. It makes the response more linear. That is, all of the volume is not in the furst 1/3 turn of the volume knob. The breakup will be more gradual and hit more around 6-7. The actual loudness should be similar.....but it will sound AND feel different.

KT66's are some MASSIVE sounding tubes. My bud has them in his SLO and that amp KILLS IT when you get into those tubes...of course...getting into those tubes happens at 6 on the volume knob...which is also right around "pants flapping" loud for that amp.

I actually just bought a Marshall JCM2000 DSL 50 watt head that I really want to rebias for KT66's...see if it can help add some beef to a fairly thin sounding amp.

PS Lance - Congrats on joining the ranks of those who are enthralled by thermionics!

That's actually sorta like congratulating someone on picking up a crack habit...cuz I'll tell you this...that probably won't be the ONLY tube amp you'll ever buy!

quote:

I actually just bought a Marshall JCM2000 DSL 50 watt head that I really want to rebias for KT66's...see if it can help add some beef to a fairly thin sounding amp.

Sell it & buy a JMP or JCM800, you shouldn't need a lot of money to do this, but that will be a new level.

The only reason I picked up the 2000 is because I got it for 500 bucks.

I've yet to fall in love with an 800...though if I could find one I liked I wouldn't be opposed to the idea...for whatever reason, I'm really interested in what I could make this little amp do...and since I have so little green into it, I'm more willing to turn it into a science experiment. New transformer...new choke...kt66's...maybe some tweaking in the EQ section...who knows? I'm going to talk to the guy at www.fjamods.com and find out what exctly he does...his prices certainly aren't unreasonable...

Ian,

Ask that guy what he thinks about KT88s in that amp. I'm curious how they would work in it (they'd be loud as hell and have a lot of headroom.....I love KT88s but some people feel they are too hard sounding).