Somewhere along the line I lost the premise of what songwriting means...It all starts with an acoustic guitar (for me) and a lucky break on catching a melody or riff from noodling around...If it is a good idea, the rest seems to fall into place. Sometimes you need to craft the idea and it takes time...But that is the basic's...

...Somehow I've gotten to a place where I'm holed up in my basement with a ton of gear/software and I dread going downstairs to the hole where there isn't much inspiration...Something had to change...soooooo....

Gone are all my Nuverb cards. Gone is the Rode Classic...I picked up a Lexicon Alpha usb which comes with Cubase LE. Installed EZDrummer and couple of plugs on Vista laptop. Grabbed my Rode NT3, DMP3 pre, JD-10, cheap Yamaha acoustic and $100 Epiphone Les Paul Jr and setup shop in my main level front sitting room with a view looking out into my front yard --- YES!! Now I LIKE making music again and creating. Put the headphones and just play, create and write.

I still have my main stuff downstairs for doing it up more real...but for the most part I don't need toys to create...I need imagination and the basics...Toy's don't make the songs better...If you're song don't sound good coming through a handheld Sony tape recorder, they won't sound great on ANYTHING...

I feel like I've been liberated from -- MYSELF!!

basement for inspiration - I don't think so
view looking out into my front yard - I don't think so either

For me I have it in my head before I lay it down most of the time, so toys or no toys, basement no basement makes no difference for me.
As for the inspiration, you need to get out of the damn place! Cave is not the best place to find muse, but is the place to find peace to lay down the idea.

Sometimes I go on vacations by myself and have A little bubbly . I Use an acoustic guitar and usually don't have a hard time coming up with a rhythm idea. After playing the rhythm several times I hear melody in my head which i then transfer into singing words which sometimes makes no sense. But then other times the words i sing wind up helping me write the song. It just kind of happens for me
I have 3 1/2 hours of ideas I just sifted through and believe I have maybe 4 good song ideas out of that

I put down ideas quickly into the Sony handheld...Lots of riffs and junk..but sifting through them is a pain...I hate to do it, but I'll probably fork out for a digital zoom or something for that...

For me, working out of my front sitting room as opposed to the basement is like a different world for my psyche and imagination...I don't feel holed up...To be honest, most of my ideas come into my head when I am at work and nowhere's near my recording stuff..

The other impact with the simplified environment is that I don't get wrapped up playing with reverbs, eq's mic setups, etc...One template with Cubase LE's stock plugs -- the compressor is OK and the SE room verb is just fine..The Lexicon comes with the Pantheon which is OK for demo'ing....If things don't sound good, I now turn to making the song better other than reaching for an effect or whatever...The song is the first priority and the simplified setup enforces I stick to that...

Where I've been bad lately (with regard to getting back to basics) is maybe ignoring some foundational stuff in terms of basic 'pop' music.

I lately forget or disregard basic 4/4 120-145 bpm AABA song forms (and occasionally the bridge or C section or whatever - which for some reason I've been avoiding writing bridges like the plague lately). Stuff like that. Just sort of straying away from accepted norms. Nothing too off but it's just not right.

Plus I'm battling apathy lately I think... you know like the second verse doesn't change much (if at all) from the first verse, either because of laziness or frustration because every idea just bites, etc.

I keep thinking inspiration will come from going back to the basics... maybe.

Song form is pretty important, ignore it at your peril I guess is the golden rule, or one of them.

I tend to do the same thing with getting ideas down, I probably have 40 or 50 songs sitting on the hard drive that are in various forms of decay It seems like the way to go, record something quick to get it down so it's not lost... except maybe it wasn't all that to begin with and ends up hogging up space. Or you get that little splash down and that's all there was, a snatch of lyrics and a verse progression. Weird. Wish there was a sure fire way to write - get the song in your head and then all out at once, for better or worse.

Interesting discussion though talking about songwriting basics.

-A

ALWAYS record every riff or hook you think is worth something...How many times I ended up going back to the vault where I recorded a snippet and then it found its way into a song 5 years later....Or mixing and matching verses/chorus from different ideas is another big one....

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I lately forget or disregard basic 4/4 120-145 bpm AABA song forms (and occasionally the bridge or C section or whatever - which for some reason I've been avoiding writing bridges like the plague lately). Stuff like that. Just sort of straying away from accepted norms. Nothing too off but it's just not right.

That's a horrible norm & boring. I bet your music is better now.

The really fun stuff kicks in when you go to something like 7/4 or 9/4, that's when you discover how much songwriting chops you really have.

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That's a horrible norm & boring. I bet your music is better now.

The really fun stuff kicks in when you go to something like 7/4 or 9/4, that's when you discover how much songwriting chops you really have.

I disagree. For one, writing a good song is simply about connecting either lyrically or musically or hopefully both with an audience. Art in general has no intrinsic value aside from it's appreciation by others. Simply writing in an odd time sig or key sig doesn't make a song any "better" or any more interesting. Songwriting chops seems mostly about "saying" something in both a fresh and approachable way. If it happens that the time signature is 7/8 or 5/4 or whatever...cool! If it's 4/4 120 bpm and you still manage to make it sound fresh, that might even be more of an accomplishment at this point.

-john

A number of years ago a well known producer was commenting on Prince. He said Prince writes 10 songs, records 10 songs and releases 10 songs. There is no one to tell him that he has 2 good songs, 3 ideas that need developing and 5 songs that aren't good at all.

Different things work for different people but I think it's a mistake to waste the time and energy to record every single thing you write. A few years ago when I was writing mainly country pop tunes I was on the road for a year and wrote about 40 songs. When I got home I decided about 9 of them were worth recording and after sending them out to various publishers I found that there were only 3 that anyone was interested in. This is not to say if you really like a song and want to record it you shouldn't. You just have to keep in mind the purpose behind it all.

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I bet your music is better now.

Ehh... I don't know, I think it's not going well. The problem, I think (I'm not sure) is that going away from accepted norms like song form, the foundational stuff — which is essentially the standard old 'pop' stuff Jason Blume always harps about in books and lectures — is not a smart move. I mean other than like experimental stuff. But if you want people to enjoy your tunes you'd better give them something they understand.

I used to sit down and plan out (to the bar) how the song was going to work, in some cases before I ever had a riff or usually a verse progression or melody.

Maybe I've just lost focus and discipline. Not sure. I've tried more of a free-flowing sort of thing in writing lately and I end up with intros that are way too long or verses that go 10 bars instead of 8, etc. or even worse, combinations of both

Actually that's a really nice thing with a DAW is that you can lay everything out a head of time, or at least get close, then write/practice off a template essentially.

Weird. What do you guys "do" to write a song? It would be interesting to hear your processes and pearls of wisdom.

I think there are 2 groups of songwriters. Those who try to gather as many listeners as they can & those who write music for writing music. I sure don't belong to the first category.

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Art in general has no intrinsic value aside from it's appreciation by others.

I really wouldn't like to open that door, but if we go that way, then there is really no difference what you do or do not do. So I say do what you enjoy. I can tell you for sure that making art is not just about pleasing people for a lot of artists.

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Art in general has no intrinsic value aside from it's appreciation by others.


I really wouldn't like to open that door, but if we go that way, then there is really no difference what you do or do not do. So I say do what you enjoy. I can tell you for sure that making art is not just about pleasing people for a lot of artists.

Admittedly, this is a way-too-huge philosophical topic, but even if one accepts that art finds it's value in the appreciation of others...it needn't lead that person to believe that nothing you do matters. Just to touch on it...if the "Pieta" was never seen by anyone, it's value would only be theoretical from Michelangelo's perspective; except for the satisfaction and effort it represented to him in achieving his vision.

Still, take the hit songs of a Carole King. They're pretty simple melodically if you analyze them and the lyrics are clear/easy/direct, but they're PERFECT in their simplicity. They obviously didn't take the kind of tools or genius even that many of the great classical and jazz composers had, but writing a truly great pop song is no small thing. I'm sure there must be people with amazing command of time and key signatures (it sure ain't me) that can't write their way out of a wet paper bag. We've all probably heard songs with all kinds of technically-impressive aspects to them that in the end leave you cold.

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I can tell you for sure that making art is not just about pleasing people for a lot of artists.

Absolutely!, but that's completely aside from whether or not their art has merit...or how we even define what's "good". Lots of artists work away in their studios for their own satisfaction for their whole lives without ever showing their work to the public. Sometimes their stuff is "good"...more often it's not. More importantly, work that had previously been passed-over when shown to the public is sometimes later found to suddenly be "great" and "rediscovered"! What changed?...only the perspective of the audience. Distilled...art that somehow connects to the audience will be succesful regardless of how complex it is.

-john

I get head clarity and ideas by myself in the car when I travel. I'm not good at keeping track of my ideas and going back to them later. Much of what I come up with is crap. I get something good going now and again, but when I get off the road, the wife, the kids, the workload, etc etc, push it all aside. Not that I am complaining, mind you, but it would be nice to see a couple of decent tunes come to fruition.

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When I got home I decided about 9 of them were worth recording and after sending them out to various publishers I found that there were only 3 that anyone was interested in.

How do you know they would not have liked some of the other 31 songs? My gosh, there was a lot of money made with likes of Achy Breaky Heart, Honky Tonk Badonkadonk, Redneck Woman, etc. These aren't the writing equivalent of the Pieta by any stretch.

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Originally posted by havlicek:
Still, take the hit songs of a Carole King. They're pretty simple melodically if you analyze them and the lyrics are clear/easy/direct, but they're PERFECT in their simplicity. -john

..and there is your secret ladies and gentlmen..."PERFECT in their simplicity"...There it is if you want commercial success. The real trick is getting there without plagairizng....This is an art-form in Nashville...