I ordered a guitar to be made for me by sending a $2500 check for down payment to a known internet guitar luthier.

About a year later I received some pictures from the luthier telling me he is making my guitar.

It is now over two years and no guitar and I have requested he return my money. He won't. Anyone know what my legal recourse would be to collect?

His shop is located San Luis Obispo, CA 18301, I am located in Lancaster Pa 17603.

Thanks for any help-!!

Jim

it would be way cheaper than a lawyer, to buy a plane ticket and go there.

i think he'd get the idea right quick.

moral of the story is...............

quote:

to a known internet guitar luthier

Who would that be? I remember reading about a guy named baranik or brandik or something like that who is down there. Kind of a small shop, charges a fortune?

Whew... man o man. That's a lot of scratch to be plunking down. Have you seen this guy's work up close? Sorry, that probably doesn't make you feel any better.

Well... I'm not a lawyer but I would think that you would be entitled to reimbursement if he hasn't delivered in a reasonable (and maybe agreed on) amount of time. I suppose it boils down to "reasonable" with regard to the amount of time it takes to build whatever it is you ordered.

Did he give you any time estimates? Two years sounds very unreasonable to me but I'm not in to boutique guitars so maybe it's normal. Seems to me the guy hopes you die of old age before he has to fulfill his part of the deal. Do you have anything in writing? Keep your receipts?

I would think that the threat of forcing him to appear in small claims court would do it. The farther away you live from him the better, making him have to expense a trip out to PA. Usually just the threat of that works, but be prepared to carry it through if he doesn't respond. You should be able to expect a reasonable turnaround - this doesn't sound reasonable.

I had a similar problem with a guy in Canada doing mic modifications - took something like 6 months to finally get through all of the bullshit excuses and actually get the mic. Was supposed to be like a week. I kinda thought maybe his plan was to extend me past the PayPal money back guarantee period - just a suspicious thought I had, no idea what his deal was though.

Yeah, you should pursue it though. If PA is anything like CA you can take him to small claims court without any legal representation - it's a 'do it yourself' deal, saves money I suppose. Bring your receipts and all correspondence, etc. Chances are he will settle beforehand or won't show.

-A

Did you sign any agreement with this company? Did he say how much longer before it is finished? You could contact the better business bureau. You might also try contacting the local police department there and see if you can maybe get some help as well. People seldom like to get contacted by the police. Small claims court is possible but sometimes it has to be done in their jurisdiction. A certified letter of delivery or refund. It's hard to say without knowing the specifics.

Not that this helps but there are a number of companies that builder guitars that ask for big deposits. This enables the company to use your money as operating capitol. A fair and reasonable deposit is usually 10-15%. If this is a solid body it certainly doesn't take this long to complete. You are usually just buying a position on a waiting list. Do you care to tell us who the company is.

Just found my canceled check with his bank account number and signature on the back.

I was wrong it has been 4 years not 2 and the check is dated 5-13-04.


This was his most recent reply to me, 2 days ago:


I haven’t forgotten you and I apologize for the delay. We both invested money into that venture, and I will return your deposit as soon as I can. I have an old guitar I made 10 or 12 years ago I can send to you for collateral. Making custom guitars is much more complicated than I expected and I am trying to finish what I started. I have many debts that I intend to repay.


As far as I can tell, he has nothing invested but my money... I haven't received anything that would have me believe he ever started the guitar. He he wasn't a known luthier I would have not sent him a dime.
__________________

4 years is a long time. It seems like he does not intend to rip you off although he is obviously having financial difficulty. Perhaps you should just try to work out a payment plan. Sometimes when people owe money they just see a large sum that they can't come up with. Even if he sends you a partial payment you are ahead of the game. Just because he is known doesn't really tell you anything about his finances. Maybe getting the other guitar as collateral isn't a bad idea either.

quote:

4 years is a long time.

Holy Cow! No kidding. That's more patience than I would've had. That is ridiculous. Doesn't sound right to me.

You definitely need to tell all who this guy is so he can be avoided. 4 years just isn't right. You could teach yourself how to build the damned thing on your own in 4 years time... yeesh!

Feel your pain, man. Let us know what happens with this.

Should I send my good friend Vito "legbreaker" Antonucci?

good luck
vito sounds like a good idea to me
but you should probably tell others who he is so they will be aware. it's the least you can do for this guy

Yeah, the guy should totally be exposed (or Vito-ized).

Wonder how many other "deposits" he's living off of.

Nice.

http://www.kbguitars.com/

I found many people ripped off by this guy...WHAT THE HELL!!!!!

LOOK http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=286414



.

Hey wait a second. I know that guy. I went to High School with him. I remember Kenny as being a real nice guy. Hmmm... either he's changed or there's some sort of misunderstanding somehow.

Ah man, what a drag.

It's interesting, but all these "one person do it all" boutique builders & modders seem to go through this same thing at some point.

I hope you get your money back Jim, I'd take the guitar he is offering for now.

Thanks nbarts...but since he made the offer he does not respond to any of my email asking for pictures or condition of the instrument. I think it would be prudent to get a picture so he can't say he sent me an instrument or something he did not.

Holy crap--too bad you didn't search for threads about this asshole before you plunked down the cash. I feel for you.

That's BS. Sure it's a bummer, but IMO his financial problems are his tough shit, not yours. Demand your money back. I'd say I would have sued by now as 4 years is totally unreasonable by any account but I do like gonzo's idea

Good luck!

1adam
do you think you can contact that guy if you know him?

never mind i just read the old thread
seems he has been doing this for some time now
Real _hole

He would likely have been better off taking orders without a deposit and actually giving a trial period for the buyer to determine if it is indeed the instrument they thought they were ordering.

Violin and bow makers (different crafts) always take orders that give buyers that option - even when they are starting to build their reputation and sell for much lower prices.

If he/she is a great and reliable maker then their instruments will usually sell.

It's called ethics.