I'm either going to buy a new laptop or a standalone recorder. I've been stifled lately because I use my current laptop for everything! This makes my system buggy, and creates organizational and other problems on my computer. I need more convenience and stability.

I'm likely not switching to the MAC, and I know as much about PC's as the average Joe Blow who has pulled himself through the world of Windows by his bootstraps. I would like advice on standalones. I'm recording bluegrass. Here are the features I need:

1.Eight pleasant sounding simultaneous inputs.
2.SPDIF in or excellent AD conversion for use with external preamps
3.Non proprietary format for compatibility with computer.
4.Built in metronome or drum machine.
5.Usable onboard effects or an external effects insert.
6.Price: I'll spend what I have to in order to stay away from junk.
7. Can be used or new
I've ruled out Zoom and Roland. I'm looking at Korg, Yamaha, Tascam, and Akai.

Advice?

Thanks!

Tracy

Well, I can answer for the AKai DPS24. Or my opinion thereof. But, I'm not sure where you're coming FROM...or what's made you rule out Roland.

1-yes.
2-SPDIF, ADAT, and decent post preamp inputs for external pres.
3-you got it--BWAV, AIFF...whatever you need.
4-Not really. Has a meternome. It blows. Hard. Unusable. I wouldn't count on a drum machie built into anything that's not aimed squarely at quick demos, FWIW.
5-Not really sure what your definition of usable is...what would you use an effect insert for? If you mean the built in EQ/compressors, which you would use inserts for--they rock. COmpressors-great. EQ-sounds good, limited bands.
6- I think they $2800 new...? Much less used obviously.

You're in town....if you want to hear it...it's all a matter of perspective. There really aren't many choices, though. It's a dying format. All computers...all the time. I'd say you've got the 2480, DPS24, and the Tascam X48...each with their own strengths and weaknesses.

Thanks for the reply, Popman. I had previously read all the posts by you I could find on the Akai. I'm glad you chimed in.

quote:

I'm not sure where you're coming FROM...or what's made you rule out Roland.

I ruled out Roland by price. I believe I would be at least as happy with the DPS24, which is less expensive than the 2480. Then again, there is the Roland 2400, which I managed to overlook somehow until a few minutes ago. Where I am coming from is that I was a hell of a lot more productive when I used to record on a Zoom 1266. I wrote songs, recorded jam sessions, and worked out ideas. I was in hog heaven for a while with this unit, but then the honeymoon was over. I finally came to realize the inputs just don't sound that great. Here I was putting oodles of time into recording, and it just wasn't the quality I wanted to hear. So, I bought a Millennia preamp, a decent Lucid AD converter, and a cheap interface with SPDIF. "Wow," I thought, "Tone!" This opened up a whole new world. The last couple of years, I've limped along with one laptop for recording, illustrating, and the administrative duties of my business.

Concerning effects

quote:

Not really sure what your definition of usable is...

The scary thing is neither do I! What is usable to me today, may not be tomorrow. I'm still admittedly green when it comes to effects. However, I have faith that my ears will evolve as I get more experience. I don't want to shell out the shillings and outgrow the darn thing in a few months.

quote:

I wouldn't count on a drum machine built into anything that's not aimed squarely at quick demos, FWIW

I just consider the drum machine to be a fancy metronome. I will often record to a simple 1 2 country beat. When I'm done, I'll gently push the fader up to see if the drum machine track blends nicely in the mix. Usually, I take it out altogether.

quote:

I'd say you've got the 2480, DPS24, and the Tascam X48...each with their own strengths and weaknesses.

Of these, I think I can rule out two of them based on price. I don't want money to be the major factor, but I don't see any reason to spend money where it isn't necessary.

Well, FWIW, the Roland goes pretty cheaply used--they're discontinued now.

Re:drum machine. Again--just buy a used drum machine and lay whatever guide track you need. You're just not gonna find it in a machine built for decent audio production.

I'm about to next to give away an old SR16 in an estate sale I'm helping with. I'd be surprised if we get $50...at that kind of price--just find an old whatever...scratch that off your list.

I don't use the time based FX. I have a rack of Lexi/Kurzweil/Alesis units I use for the verb/delay. But, it's all diminished returns...you know? The Roland has better FX. By far. But, I'm not alone in my opinion that the Akai excels at-you know actual recording/editing/mixing audio. I put more value there. I'm just not a heavy FX guy...and they're not Kurzweil/Lexi good on either machine. I've considered just investing in a few more Lexi PCM series. I just don't hear software touching them...and they're going pretty cheaply these days...

So, if you write the Tascam off for price...you've only got two real choices. If you don't need a 24 track...some of the Korg's might be an option, but their track counts and such go way down with 24bit--be careful.

I was not aware the Roland was discontinued, since I see them for sale on all the big music superstore websites. Are we talking about the VS-2480?

quote:

I'm not alone in my opinion that the Akai excels at-you know actual recording/editing/mixing audio.

That's huge...the heart and soul of what we are doing here. I have an LXP-1 and a DBX 166xl to learn on, and I tend not to EQ all that much.

quote:

Again--just buy a used drum machine

Okay! I finally got it. No onboard crappy drum tracks! I hereby solemnly swear to get a drum machine to go with whatever standalone recorder I end up buying. Till then, I'll have to play along with the only device I have...one of those battery operated monkeys in a fez with cymbals.

quote:

If you don't need a 24 track...some of the Korg's might be an option, but their track counts and such go way down with 24bit--be careful.

I don't need 24 tracks, but I could see instances where more than 16 would come in handy. The Korgs are affordable enough, but I'd like to know how they sound. It is going to come down to finding a way to audition the ones I am interested in.

I thought I read over at the planet that they'd discontinued the 2480...I could be wrong--I don't follow that closely. I remember not long ago a store closing out the VSF3 plug ins like they were history...

If you need more than 16, you need a 24 track.

I'm in town if you need to hear the DPS24. Drop me a line at Langsongs AT Yahoo.com.

Dont rule out the Korg D3200. I have a Roland 1824 and use a 2400 quite often. Just this past May, the guy I work with rented one of these to record one of his seminar gigs I work with him on. I had to learn it and start recording within 1/2hr of sitting in front of it. The learning curve was simpler than any of the Roland units I've used (880,1824,2400). It's a breeze to simply arm tracks and start recording. Didn't have to ref the manual at all to start recording.The touch screen is a nice touch too for getting around.

Non compressed audio (i.e not Roland RDAC) and exporting to computer was also a breeze. It simply creates a 2gb(max) virtual hardrive that once you bounce internally on the machine, you can now drag and drop the files onto your computer.The Korg connects via USB 2.0 and will create the drive icon on your desktop.

EQ, not bad. "Analog" compression, but I didn't bother with it as I recorded at 24bit and didn't have to time to experiment with it.

No idea what the FX sound like, didn't use them, but like Popmann, I like my external options more anyways

It does have an onboard drum machine that is very easy to toggle as simply a metronome (monitor only), or print to a stereo pair. Works well for what it is but I agree with Popmann in that I wouldn't base my decision to buy one on an internal DM.

Converters are,..meh... so, so. In the same league as the Rolands but the ADAT card is only like $130 I think and that's far less than the DIF-AT24 that my buddy bought for his 2400 to bypass the A/D..Preamps are more or less the same, maybe a bit better than my 1824's but nothing to get excited about, but if you were recording several tracks and intermingled them with some higher end preamps, it wouldn't be that bad.

If I was buying a stand alone tomorrow, I think I'd narrow down my quest to the Korg and Akai (Pop has sparked my interest in the Akai over the last couple of years.) Neither support a VGA monitor like the Roland, but seeing that I only use these stand alones to track to, it's not really an issue for me.

But I see where you're coming from. There's just something about being able to quickly arm some tracks and push some faders that makes the process easier and more enjoyable and this is a benefit that the stand alones offer. That and stability.

I just committed to a DPS24 (not an MKII)for $1300 on Ebay. I saw where one went recently for >$1000, but I missed out on it.

I looked hard at the Korg 3200 (and the cute little D888 for that matter), but the Akai has more ways and places to plug in and route signals. I've read a gajillion raves about how great it sounds. I've already had two bad experiences trying to record a band with a laptop and interface, and I'm done with it. I'll keep my Firebox around for convenience, but the Firepod goes on sale today!

The only thing I'm a little anxious about is the learning curve, but having used a Zoom 1266, I think it'll be okay.

Good call. Given the choice I'd go DPS24 too. I just recommended the Korg was the price comapred to the DPS24mkII. gratz!

quote:

Given the choice I'd go DPS24 too.

I'll have to admit, I fantasized about taking the much smaller D888 to gigs and rehearsals.

The DPS24 shipped today. Whoopie!!!

quote:

The DPS24 shipped today. Whoopie!!!

Yowsa! I think you're going to be surpised/shocked (in a very good way) with the thing. Different paradigm from about all the other SIABs, but you should be sailing in no time. Congrats!

-john

Congrats on the new DPS!!! I'm a proud and happy owner also. I think your going to be very happy with your choice. You do know about the DPS Forum, right? Bunch of great people that will help you get going. I'll see ya over there.

Roger

quote:

You do know about the DPS Forum, right? Bunch of great people that will help you get going. I'll see ya over there.

Thanks, guys. I did not know about the forum, but I will register and take a look tonight! I'm hoping this thing will simplify my life, and I can maybe even sell some gear.

Tracy

wretchasketch? howd the new akai work out for you?

Hey, Newb.

It didn't arrive in working condition. I had to return it. You may have seen all that at the DPS forum by now.

Wretch,

The only thing worse than recording on disposable Digital gear is recording on USED disposable Digital gear.

Check out the schedule for "Club Cubase Nashville" and go to a meeting.
You don't HAVE to use all of the features of the recording software of your choice so it can be set up to be simple.

jmp

No, but you have to maintain a stable computer.

the cost of a stable computer, interface, software is well above the price he's looking to spend.

not tomention, he's been down the computer recording woes, had too much trouble, I believe--thus made the decision to use hardware.

Popmann's answer is pretty well on the money. It boils down to this: I found myself recording way more often and being more creative and productive when I used a standalone unit. It just seemed easier and more convenient to grab an instrument and go lay some tracks. I dunno about the the Akai being any more disposable than a computer. I've bought a new PC every couple of years or so since 1996.

I used to enjoy recording on my old Zoom and then dumping everything to the PC for editing...occasionally adding parts. I expect to do something similar when I get settled into a DPS24.

I like the concept of dedicated recorders.
I used a Roland DM-80 ($20k Eight Track!!) for a long time as it was very stable and reliable.

You just have to find a system that works and can readily get minor repairs done.

My DM-80 finally bit the dust mainly because I couldn't find the correct internal Hard Drives for it. Threw it into a Landfill (moment of silence).

I just think that from my limited experiences with all-in-one Boxes, the quality isn't generally very good. The Akai might be great. I used an Akai 12 Track back in the day.
That is part of my prejudice.
At their "end of life expectancy" the Tapes were breaking...Transports going bad..general crappiness. That stuff doesn't die gracefully.

jmp