Wow... Wormhole... Kewl...

Just the whole "get every last little bit of level possible" thing. Trying to get the last 6dBfs (the 24th bit) full.

It's sooooo unimportant, and yet sooooo many engineers rip their hair out trying to make sure that the recording levels are kissing that last bit all the time.

For the unitiated: Something to keep in mind - In 24-bit, you can record with levels that PEAK at -47dBfs and STILL have better resolution than a CD.

Of course, you wouldn't do it, but that's how little the tracking levels matter. Get a "decent" level and go. Forget about the meters and concentrate on the sound.

In 16-bit, it's arguably more important. Still, levels that are peaking at -6 or -5 are just fine. Especially during mixing, if you have more than two tracks that are hitting above -6dBfs, you WILL have clipping. You're going to have to turn it down anyway.

Now if you'll all pardon me, I have a wormhole to jump through...

quote:

Originally posted by John Scrip:

quote:

Originally posted by bandini:
My personal feeling is that home-recorded music everywhere would take a huge leap forward in quality if the L2 were to suddenly vanish from the face of the earth, but that's just me...

It's not just you...

The freaky thing about "sheer volume" (at least in my experience) is that people are shooting for it at the wrong time 90% of the time.

Of the mixes that come in here requesting "rip your face off" volume, the ones that normally actually attain it are the ones that came in very dynamic and rather quiet. They're the ones who weren't "hoarding bits" from the start. On top of that, with some engineers, there's such an investment into making sure the mix is "loud" that they forget the "good sound" part - or at least compromise the sound for the sake of volume.

Whereas if they concentrated on getting the overall sound in the pocket from the start, the mixes would probably have a much greater *potential* volume during the mastering stage.

Okay, I'm done.

I dont know of any mastering engineers who get off trying to make thier pop record louder than their peers. I do know of some who cringe and sigh at the commands of the record label. I know of some tho really try to convince themselves they havent compromised....

You mentioned this before.....receiving a final mixdown at say -21dbRMS to -18dbRMS is eaiser for you to make it loud as opposed to receiving a final mix at say -15dbRMS to -14dbRMS and turning that mastered mix out at -12dbRMS to -10dbRMS. Could you elaborate how taking that quieter mix and turning it out at -12 to 10 is easier/better? What tools are you using? What is the process? How would it be eaiser/better for you?

Do you mix commercial releases where the requirement is -12dbRMS to -10dbRMS for a pop release? (yeah they dont give those numbers but after listeining that is what you are forced to end up with if you want return business) Of course if you leave in more dynamics you will hear more "punch." So much of this depends on the nature of the particular song and its dynamics. Do you have any examples where you took a quiet mixdown and did this?

Enlighten me.....

At the risk of sounding vague (I really don't mean to), the same "whatever the mix needs" applies - I was just working on a project yesterday from Farview Recording (Jason hangs out here at SF once in a while) that came in at around -20dBRMS with peaks below -6dBfs or so. When it was finished, it was kissing -10dBRMS easily before it got out of hand. It's simply the side-effect of a nice sounding, dynamic mix. Not that I didn't think it sounded better with less smashing, but it didn't sound "bad" with it.

That on the table, I've done a little experimenting with the gear selection... I couldn't get a digital chain to come close to these levels without irritating the hell out of me (probably why I almost always use an analog chain in the first place). Every piece in the chain was absolutely crucial to the final volume. The project yesterday was shaped in digital - I used digital EQ, a little de-essing to take some hair off an unusually present ride cymbal, some other goofiness that had nothing to do with volume.

The analog chain on this one was fairly typical, but there was a specific request for RYFOL (Rip Your Face Off Levels) which changes the techniques drastically. Vari-Mu for compression, Crane Song STC8M for limiting, Lavry M*AD-824 for saturation and conversion. Every tune had different settings.

The final maximum peak on load-in was sitting at -0.7dBfs and that's where I left it. Bringing it up another .4dB isn't worth the noise.

I'll see if I can get clearance to upload a sample...

Thanks John I would love to hear it. You said you couldnt get a "digital chain"....in this case what do you mean? All software?

Gee, I can't believe I never answered that - Yes.

Sorry, been so freakin' busy lately... Haven't even had a chance to clear that stuff yet either...

Im very busy too. Dont feel rushed. It would be great to hear it if you get permission.

Not the ones I was hoping for, but I updated some of my audio samples... #3 and #7 are "decent" examples of what I was referring to - Both were very dynamic and mighty quiet on the way in, and both reacted very well to being crushed to bits.

#2 is just fun...