I was reading an old thread reguarding recording levels and there were things (a lot)I did not understand. Here's my question. If you record a track which has several peaks at say -1 dbfs and place it in your mix. Now turn up the volume of the -1 slider on your computer app +4, it clips, so you turn down the master output of your recording app, will this produce distortion?
I am trying to understand why if you record hot and then mix down so that your total ouput of the mix is low the ME doesn't have the headroom he needs to work with?
Any help with this 60 year old brain would be appreciated.
Thanks
Larrye

It depends on the application - Generally, it's "bad form" though...

If you record using *normal* levels - That being, levels floating around or below 0dBVU, that will translate to a signal around -18 or maybe -15dBFS or so with occasional peaks over that - Maybe around -12dBFS give or take.

That's a normal level. It's been a normal level for over 60 years. Digital didn't change that - It just put a different number on it.

Recording a signal at around -1dBFS is *overdriving* the input chain by around 15dB... That's a lot of noise, distortion, loss of clarity and focus, poor imaging, etc. Getting levels "hot without clipping" is (IMO) one of the most damaging myths ever to smack the hell out of digital audio - Line level hasn't changed. 0dBVU hasn't changed. Digital was designed with MORE headroom than anyone would really ever need - Yet unlike analog, that headroom has a solid and defined ceiling (-0dBFS). So, a lot of people tend to try to use all that headroom up - all the time - not even hearing what kind of damage it's doing to the sound. They just wind up thinking "Wow, I can't seem to EQ this track" or "Gee, this doesn't sound 'big' like professionally recorded tracks" and yada, yada...

Anyway - The point is that if the tracks aren't *RECORDED* with a decent amount of headroom, turning them down to have headroom in the mix isn't making up for the damage already done to the audio. On the flip-side, with tracks that are recorded at normal levels, you can almost get a mix going just by setting everything at unity and hitting the "PLAY" button. You'll probably have to bring some faders down a little, but not nearly as much.

And of course, you can use the exact same technique that's been used for 60 years again - A mix that dances around 0dBVU, with occasional peaks hitting higher. It's dependent on where your converters are calibrated (my mixing converters are down around -22dBFS) to a point, but -18dBFS is a safe bet again. I believe -20dB(RMS) is the U.K. standard for mix levels (rock, pop, etc.). That's a nice place to be. Set the kick or the bass guitar around -20dBFS and build the mix there. It's likely that the mix will have an absolute peak at around -5 or -6dBFS. I can't think of a mastering engineer who wouldn't be thrilled if every single mix that came in was around there.

Everybody thinks that -6dBFS is low for some reason - But applying some thought to it, if your converters are calibrated to -18dBFS, a -6dBFS signal is a an ear-splitting, amplfier choking, tape-melting +12dBu!

SO - Record at normal levels and make sure the mix peaks above -20dBFS. Hell, -30dBFS is fine. Honest - There's SO much headroom and NO inherent noise... It breaks my brain why people don't take advantage of it.

Not that I'm being naive - I understand (and have accepted) that everyone is going to use up all of that headroom during the mastering phase. But to use it up before then - Even at the tracking phase (where the most damage is done), blows my mind...

You say 0dBVU, are you talking RMS? I tend to monitor my levels using an 896HD and a Central Station; the meters of both show peak levels, right? How should I be monitoring my RMS level? Am I missing something really simple?

I'm in DP, fwiw.

Without VU meters (I'm hoping that your preamps have them, but I've noticed that many are forgetting about them for some reason) you have to take "an educated guess" at it -

If it helps, I pretty much just make sure the level is in the ballpark of where the gear wants to run - 0dBVU is going to equate to around -18dBRMS digitally - again, depending on how your converters are calibrated.

During the mix, it's basically the same thing -- Somewhere around 0dBVU, -20dBRMS is a nice place that *normally* has enough headroom if the recording was well controlled during previous steps (the performance, tracking, early mixing phases).

quote:

Anyway - The point is that if the tracks aren't *RECORDED* with a decent amount of headroom, turning them down to have headroom in the mix isn't making up for the damage already done to the audio

John,
Your quote above answers a BUNCH of my questions about digital recording. I bet this CD I just recorded would have been a lot better if I not recorded as hot as I did. I was trying to keep it around -6 dbfs but some of the peaks were higher. I also understand why one softer slower song sounds so much better than the others. It was recorded at lower levels.
There is so much wrong information being circulated around the internet it is hard to sort it all out.
Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge.
Larry