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5th kyu
Picture of Wish
Posted
Here's an article from record-producer.com


quote:
Why doesn't your recording sound like a PRO recording? Here are FIVE good reasons...


1. Firstly and foremost, the quality of musicianship is not professional. Not even the best recording engineer in the world can make a silk purse from a sow's ear, as the saying goes (or polish a turd, according to the other version of that saying).


2. Not recording clear, clean and crisp sounds. If anything you record - vocal, instrumental or sample, doesn't pass the 'Three-C' test, then fix it so that it does.


3. Insufficient skill in mixing (or progressing too quickly to the mastering stage). The only remedy is to record, mix, then assess your work by comparison with recordings you admire. Do more recordings, more mixes, more assessments. There are few tricks that will make much difference. Almost everything is down to experience.


4, Insufficient studio facilities. There isn't much equipment around these days that has less than professional sound quality. But unless you have plenty of money to spend, it is likely that your studio will be impoverished in facilities compared to a professional's studio. For instance, the pro might be using an expensive Pro Tools HD system You might be using the cheap-as-chips Mbox 2. Your recordings have the same audio quality within a gnat's whisker, but the plug-ins, for instance, will not have the same extensive sound palette. There will be the latency issue to work around too. An expert engineer would have to work harder to get the same results with your less expensive system. But they would get professional results, perhaps only within a smaller universe of sonic possibilities.

5, Lack of focus. This is notoriously underrated as a barrier to success. But consider the working routine of the professional. There is rent to pay for the studio premises, finance repayments for the equipment, no other income to pay the domestic bills, other professionals around expecting things to get done efficiently and to a high standard.

Now compare this to the home recordist who has all the time in the world... which is, unfortunately, often mostly wasted. One way to achieve focus is to work with other people who are better at what they do than you are at recording. You'll have to raise your game pretty quick or they won't want to work with you. Another is to set a schedule, one new song written, demoed and recorded every week, for instance.

I suffer from all 5!!!

But it's just a hobby for me...I only average maybe 1-2 full blown production songs a year...I screw around a lot and record a lot of demo crap...but don't get a real bug up my ass very often to record a complete song...

Even those 1 or 2 times a year when I do try to do my best...I think I still suffer from all 5...maybe only 4 on a good day.

But I've learned a lot in the 4 or 5 years I've been recording...so my production has definitely improved from the beginning.

So if I ranked these 5 things from the biggest to the smallest problem for me in terms of making music, it would be:


5, Lack of focus.

3. Insufficient skill in mixing (or progressing too quickly to the mastering stage).

1. Firstly and foremost, the quality of musicianship is not professional.

2. Not recording clear, clean and crisp sounds.

4.Insufficient studio facilities


I record in a little square 11 by 13 foot bedroom....all of my recording gear is low end....but those are the least of my problems!

How would you other guys rank yourselves?
 
Posts: 30 | Location: Phoenix | Registered:: 08-27-04Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Shodan
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Thanks for the great link. I'm about 2 years behind you, and its amazing how practice really helps, I've grown a lot in 2 years.
My weakest links right now are:
1) Studio space( I'm moving next week to a townhouse with a basement I plan to convert. Right now I'm in a spare room too!
2) Pre-amps. Ive got a good mic , but I need a good pre.
3) Help. I can't do this alone, and I need to connect with other musicians, artists and people interested in recording. Right now Studio Forums is my lifeline, but it would be great to work one on one with other talent.
 
Posts: 301 | Location: London Canada | Registered:: 11-20-04Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Shodan
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Forgot 4) Inspiration-sometimes it wanes. Articles like this one help. Magazines and forums help too.
 
Posts: 301 | Location: London Canada | Registered:: 11-20-04Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Yondan
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Interesting reading....I'd add a few more:

- lack of understanding of the very basic stuff (like gain staging, mic placement, mic choice, etc...)

- equating "good" with "current" sounds/techniques

- trying to emulate a specific artist or studio's signature sound

- The re-emergencence/explosion of the "fix it in the mix" mentality.

- Reliance on presets in plug ins...(turn it on and leave it alone...)

Most of what was in the original list can be overcome with experience, practice, and experimentation....(I fought those battles for a long time...and the turning point for me adhering to what football coaches always preach: get back to the basics, and the rest will take care of itself.


If Its Not A Good Idea, Then Why Am I Risking A Career With It?
 
Posts: 1392 | Location: Midland, TX | Registered:: 09-01-03Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Yondan
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In the few responses so far no one has yet mentioned the first:

quote:
1. Firstly and foremost, the quality of musicianship is not professional. Not even the best recording engineer in the world can make a silk purse from a sow's ear, as the saying goes (or polish a turd, according to the other version of that saying).


By far the most important.


All the best,

Henry Robinett
 
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Kyudan
Picture of Popmann
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I agree with Henry...and add that in particular SINGING is lacking quality. It's amazing how much other stuff becomes easily forgivable when the vocalist lays it on the line.


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For further proof of my lack of expertise, please listen to:My Tunes
 
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2nd kyu
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Here is how I rate
5, Lack of focus.

4. Insufficient skill in mixing (or progressing too quickly to the mastering stage).

3. Firstly and foremost, the quality of musicianship is not professional.

2. Not recording clear, clean and crisp sounds.

1.Insufficient studio facilities

I concider myself motivated and I concider myself a decent musician. My mixing could very well improve, but of course I suffer from not having professional enough gear. I just use a 1880 and mix most my stuff with the onboard effects. I work out of a 13x10 control room and a 16x17 live room. I have a makeshift vocal both in a closet and a colection of what I thought were decent mics. But the more I listen to pro stuff the more I realize I aint got it. But, I still have fun doing it and letting others her my crap.

DAZE
 
Posts: 181 | Registered:: 11-03-03Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Dot
Mod
Kyudan
Picture of Dot
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I listed 10 reasons in a topic, What musically separates home recordings from major label releases?

quote:

I'd say it's mainly the arrangements.

I hear quite a few people who are good musicians who post MP3's here and in other forums. I hear very few people who are actually good arrangers.

Many bedroom/home recordings have a few things in common:

1. Showing off/Overplaying: The players are too busy showing you that they can play their instrument and that they're good, and forget to come up with perhaps the simple part that works for the song.

2. Holding it together: The lack of counter melodies and musical hooks. What many people tend to do is write a song, and then when they record it all the instruments just sort of comp to the root. No real tension is introduced. No additional musical ideas. I hear this a lot.

3. Insecurity: [ This is also true of live bands. ] People often do not explore their instrument enough to be secure enough to develop their own style. So, often it just ends up as the sort of boring, take-no-chances MOR stuff. [ personal and spiritual development might also be included here ]

4. The Silence: I don't think people realize that it's often what you don't play that can make a song really work. Home recordists tend to cover up the canvas completely in an effort to make something sound big and full, and miss the idea that the space in the music is a huge factor in making something truly palitable and tasty.

5. Doing too much: People who record at home often try to do too much by themselves rather than enlist help with the project. Too many people now "play everything", not really because they actually do play all the instruments well, but rather because they're too lazy or lack the skills to work within a larger group towards a common goal. Let's take the average major label CD release - and we'll say that everyone who worked on it has an average of 10 years experience. You've got a band of 5 people. 2 engineers. 1 producer. 1 mixer. 1 mastering eng. That's 10 people! Multiplied by 10 years each - and you get a total of 100 years total combined experience. That's 100 years [ and in many cases in the real world, it can be 200-300 years ] of sweat and experience competing with the average home recordist - who may have several years experience with a few instruments and a few years recording experience.

6. Lack of experience: Plain and simple. This part's OK, and everyone has to go through it. Everyone has to start somewhere.

7. Tones and timbres: Another very common "home" problem is that many people just simply don't know how to get the "right" sound on any given track to work with all the other sounds that just aren't quite right. A song has to be this kind of one world/thing that all works together as a single creation. This is an art and a craft unto itself - and takes years and years to learn how to do well.

8. The "seams": Just like a finely-crafted coat - all the seams need to be in place. Home recordings often have lots of seams showing and rough edges that don't match up well. And learning to make seamless music goes all the way back to the arrangement.

9. Living in the past: I notice this, especially with some of the older crowd. They just get stuck in some timewarp in a certain period or genre that has come and gone.

10. Listening: People who make the average home recording often haven't learned to listen. To just listen is probably the hardest part.

Just some thoughts and stuff I notice.


---------------------------
Dan Richards
The Listening Sessions
---------------------------
 
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Shodan
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quote:
9. Living in the past: I notice this, especially with some of the older crowd. They just get stuck in some timewarp in a certain period or genre that has come and gone.


I plead guilty as charged. Although I remember Jennifer Warnes talking about her "Famous Blue Raincoat" recording ,all her friends asked her if she was tired of those songs! (apparantly she was on the original Leonard Cohen mixes.)
It turned out pretty good for her. Haven't heard much of her lately though!

How do you keep an open mind to new styles, I'd like to hear, some thoughts.
 
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2nd kyu
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quote:
Originally posted by murph:
[QUOTE]

How do you keep an open mind to new styles, I'd like to hear, some thoughts.


Good music is good music no matter what style. But I think there are ways you can record to make your stuff sound a little more modern. Hoter guitars dryer drums. I hear a lot of stuff on these forums that is reverb drenched, and I think that kinda dates tunes. I am guilty of it. Reverb should just be added ever so slightly as to add a good vibe to the tune. The tune should sound good dry first.

Just my input.

DAZE
 
Posts: 181 | Registered:: 11-03-03Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Yondan
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Dan - that list is spot on. I was a little to trite to indicate that musicianship is numero-uno. That's too general. Arrangements are more crucial. And being an accomplished instrumentalist only speaks about one instrument. Most project based studio guys try to play all the instruments, and try as we do, we are not as good on all the instruments we try to play as we are on our primary instrument.

I always thought that the producer used to be the one who provided all those excellent extra musical parts, the details, the overall arrangements. The engineer was responsible for the sonic landscape in terms of levels, and frequency.

Now when we are doing it all ourselves that's asking for a lot of talent that used to be spread around by various genuises. What is often not understood is the level that a lot of these unsung LA producers, songwriters worked at. So many of these guys were BRILLIANT. So many had perfect pitch. And no, that's less important than our lost friend Dusty felt, but it is an indication when we try and compare our home projects with the hitmasters.

Being current with listening and willing to change up. I agree with DAZE. Reverb is a very telling thing. I have been applying a LOT less of it than I used to and for many, I'm sure, it's still too much. So much that I listen to is just too dry for me. I've just got to realize that in this sense I'm dated. So my aesthetic is shifting. Less and less reverb. Or it's sounds like the 80s.


All the best,

Henry Robinett
 
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Yondan
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Of course, Henry--by the time you get accustomed to using less reverb, the trend will change and the wet sound will be huge again!

And that is why...I pursue the current aesthetics that I really love, and ignore the rest. I don't love the dry, totally compressed and in your face vocal sound found on all the Alanis/Avril/John Mayer/Dave Matthews type stuff. It sounds trendy to me.

I don't really like kick drums that sound like they're recorded in a separate room from other drums, so I don't go for that.

Does my stuff sound 'current'? Not as current as it would if I bought the necessary plug ins and samples to get these sounds. But who cares? Does it sound *good*? I may take some flack for this, but I believe the answer is yes.
 
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Kyudan
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quote:
9. Living in the past: I notice this, especially with some of the older crowd. They just get stuck in some timewarp in a certain period or genre that has come and gone.


Actually, I totally disagree with that...that might be a reason Dan think they suck, but...I think retro is cool. I think the new McCartney is cool. Joss Stone. Jackson Browne still isn't going to win any "sounds modern" awards--he got burned by that in the 80's. he won't make that mistake again. People have a sonic/style preference. whether it's topping the charts right now or not seems irelevant to me. If you want to make a record that sounds like Winger--go for it. But, you better actually be able to play like that, too.

quote:
Most project based studio guys try to play all the instruments, and try as we do, we are not as good on all the instruments we try to play as we are on our primary instrument.


Amen. while I like the McCartney...that's IT's weak point...and, man--he's Paul. Wink

quote:
What is often not understood is the level that a lot of these unsung LA producers, songwriters worked at. So many of these guys were BRILLIANT.


Amen. David Tyson comes to mind. Actually, check out the Jude Cole catalog as perfect example...he did a WB debut where he hadn't quite found his voice-literally. Blah. Despite Russ Titleman producing. Tyson produced the second, and produced a #1 track-not to mention fab album. He had James Newton Howard do the next-different slant on his sound, still great. kevin Killen step in for the third--most eclectic of the 3. Least popular. Since he's done some more stuff producing himself in his uber studio. Back to blah. Which isn't a slam on him. It's proof that such a fab singer, songwriter, and multiinstrumentalist STILL needed the input/direction of a great producer. I like to use him as example, because he had the first record that he managed to get on WB before being "ready", IMO. And his stuff after wasn't "bad"...it just wasn't the calibur of those three different records. it was like there was something missing. the same something I hear missing in hte BEST indie records.

Now...MOST indie produced stuff I hear, I still say suffers from what I mentioned earlier--they can't sing. Singer that doesn't grab me=music I'll turn off.


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For further proof of my lack of expertise, please listen to:My Tunes
 
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Sandan
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quote:
How do you keep an open mind to new styles, I'd like to hear, some thoughts.

I'm in a little different boat than most of the members on this forum. I can't call myself a musician (I used to play drums, keyboard and trombone years ago) so for me recording has become a hobby that sprung out of an interest in music. It started by having some friends of my daughter who needed to get a demo made but didn't have much money. I have recorded bands that range from doom/hardcore/metal to female singer/songwriter and this has broadened my music appreciation tremendously. Whenever I record a band that has a style I'm unfamiliar with I ask them to name some artists in their genre and I go out and get a few CDs. It's amazing what this has opened up for me - I can safely say I never would have bought a Helmet, Isis, or Dillinger Escpape Plan album if I hadn't recorded bands who named them as their influences. And I'm always surprised at how, after a few listens, I come to appreciate music where my first reaction is "You've got to be kidding!" My wife who's also a music lover and real trooper goes with me to shows of emerging bands which helps keep things fresh. We also host out of town bands at our house (helps us deal with the empty nest thing) which is another thing that keeps us connected to the music scene.

Regarding the main topic of this thread, I hope I can say this without sounding smug but I've been ecstatic at the results I've been able to get with modest gear. With the exception of one of my earliest projects, every band I have recorded has been very happy with their CD and I get more projects than I can handle by word of mouth (working cheap doesn't hurt either). I'll never forget the reaction of a young woman who recorded her first CD with me. When she heard the final mix on my high-end stereo she sat there and quietly said, "I can't believe it sounds this good." She said that 4 or five times throughout the record. That's one of the most rewarding moments I've had for a very long time. I've since done two other projects with her and she is now signed to an independent label.

On the flip side of "Why doesn't your recording sound pro?" I can share something that has worked for me very well. I try to reverse-engineer the recordings that the bands say they like. I listen to them and try to understand the drum sound, the guitar sound, the vocals, and the ambiance of the general mix. Is it in your face? Is there space around the individual instruments or does it sound like sonic mush? Are the vocals dry? Are the guitars rolled off and midrangy or are they bright and crisp? Does the bass feel of the record come mainly from the bass or does it come from guitar crunch and kick drum? Then, before we start the project, I play a record or two and ask the band what they like about the recording. I also ask what they don't like. I can then try my best to head in that direction before we lay down the first track. This way I can have some kind of vision of what the mix should sound like which really helps in the process.
 
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Turn it up!
1st kyu
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Some really good stuff!!
Wow Dot! Right on the money. How well put!!
Some real good points and things to strive to improve on!
 
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Hoser
Yondan
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Spot on Dan,...spot on..Your list was far more poigniant than Wish's - and the one he found was good.

Damn, if I read one more reference to Jackson Browne from Popmang, I'm gonna puke Big Grin

Seriously..I have to hear some of this stuff I guess but I ain't gonna buy it. I'll keep my ears peeled to see if I can catch some
 
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Yondan
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Arrangement, musicianship, song quality... all those are good thoughts, and - obviously - pretty subjective.

Personally, I think the average home recording is WAAAY more interesting arrangement-wise than the average major-label release, which seems to be employing a paint-by-numbers approach most of the time. But that's just my taste. I have zero interest in formulaic pop (not to be confused with GOOD, interesting pop, which I love), so the majors have nothing to offer me presently.

I'd say the #1 reason the average home recording doesn't sound "pro"...

Fake drums.

Pure and simple.

Chris
 
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Yondan
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quote:
Originally posted by bandini:
Arrangement, musicianship, song quality... all those are good thoughts, and - obviously - pretty subjective.


It's ALL subjective

quote:
Personally, I think the average home recording is WAAAY more interesting arrangement-wise than the average major-label release, which seems to be employing a paint-by-numbers approach most of the time. But that's just my taste. I have zero interest in formulaic pop (not to be confused with GOOD, interesting pop, which I love), so the majors have nothing to offer me presently.


Obviously not talking specifics this doesn't make any sense to me. A lot of the pop music today, I'm not up to speed with anyway. And there's such a wide range of styles, from Black Eyed Peas, to ColdPlay, Nickleback, Christina Aguilera, Kayne, Kelly Clarkson, Sheryl Crow - I mean current POP. It's all well produced and differently produced. And they don't all have real drums on them.


quote:

I'd say the #1 reason the average home recording doesn't sound "pro"...

Fake drums.

Pure and simple.

Chris


Generally speaking, absolutely.


All the best,

Henry Robinett
 
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Yondan
Picture of shortyprs
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Every offense that's been pointed out, I've been guilty of. All of the conversation has been very illuminating. Here's my own twist to it. It comes from the stage I'm at in my own recording.

Home recordists have a limit on their (our) learning curve. That limit is our ability to really hear the music.

I'm just finished with the lion share of my new room. I plugged in the monitors and put on some CD's to listen to while I worked. I was floored. The different reverb placements or delays on different instruments popped out of the speakers. That real compressed, popping, dry, kick track is suddenly clear. The annoying snare rattle on one track jumped out and sat on my lap. A guitar sounded like a real guitar in my room. Its my same cheap monitors. But its almost creepy how much more detail I'm hearing. I'm suddenly awed by the brilliant tracking and mixing in some of my favorite CD's. Some of my own previous mixes...leave me pained!

Without a great listening environment, its impossible to really learn to record and mix. I can learn song craft and counter melodies. I can practice and get better at my instruments. I can pamper some other egomaniacal (but talented) musicians into playing on my stuff. But I could never see the error of my ways with them big blinders on my eyes.


If only I knew 1/10th.
 
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Sandan
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What shortyprs said!!! I can relate completely. It was totally amazing what happened to my mind, my ears, and my mixes once I got my roomed treated and tuned properly.

As for fake drums – I disagree. Fake drums are NOT the problem – its the engineers who don't know how to program, record and mix in a skillful, professional way.

drbam
 
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