I tend to go on and on about this mic.

Just came across this. I think he mentions studioreviews too. He's in Vancouver and I'd like to go talk to the guy. Already emailed him about mod'g one of the 460's I use with my bud.

http://cgi.ebay.com/UPGRADED-APEX-460-TUBE-STUDIO-CONDE...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Here's a 460 modified with a peluso cap.

http://cgi.ebay.com/TUBE-STUDIO-CONDENSER-MICROPHONE-w-...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Cool stuff! I'd love to get my hands on one of those.

Thanks for posting that, Bazz. I've been close to buying an MXL V69ME for a while now but had put off the purchase because of the reported problems. I wasn't aware of this mic/upgrade but it sounds like this might be a better choice.

I emailed the guy re upgrading the 460's and he replied:

Hi Baz, thanks for the inquiry. Yes I will perform upgrades for folks who already own 460 microphones.



If you are happy with the basic sound of the 460 then the basic upgrade which gives you nearly 8db more headroom and a more consistent low frequency response… would be $75. The Sovtek 6072a tube we supply has the proper specifications for the circuit in the 460 which is identical to the one in the original C12/ELAM 251 microphones. The Cinemag transformer has a better response than the original Telefunken transformer. The Advanced Audio CM 12 out performs microphones worth over 3 times its price.



The capsule is the heart of the sound and it can be tailored to respond like an AKG C12/Elam 251 with the Peluso CEK 12 capsule which is $225 Cnd installed or like a Telefunken U47 with the Peluso CEK 367 capsule for $225.



There is also a CEK 89 option which is closer to the U67/U87 capsule but with a bit more enhanced high end at 10K to 13K. This is very nice for background vocals and on acoustic guitar and also works well with many vocalists it is $150 Cnd installed.



When we upgrade the capsules we paint the sleeve of the 460 green and add our LOGO.



If you are using the microphone for more than vocal and acoustic guitar recording where are faster transients as with acoustic piano, drums, percussion instruments and cymbals then the Cinemag transformer for $95 installed will improve the very high end clarity and the low end clarity of those very transient instruments.



Best regards, Dave Thomas (Advanced Audio)

quote:

There is also a CEK 89 option which is closer to the U67/U87 capsule but with a bit more enhanced high end at 10K to 13K.

Sounds like what I'd want, huh?

This may be OT...but, has anyone heard this Peluso cap in anything? seems like the 367 would be what he uses in his 2247...no? CEK12 in the 22.251...

Do you need a clean room to do cap replacement? or just building them? Is it hard to change them out? If it's a pretty simple procedure, I've got a Hamburg that's already quite "87ish" but lacking in the mid richness dept...if Peluso's 89 cap is as nice sounding as his 367...that's an $90 no brainer.

Thanks for the link, Bazz.

The 460 we have here is undergoing various mods in the name of science.

Hey Bazz, I've noticed this guy on Ebay and even linked Pop to this mic (whether he remembers it or not) to check out.
Your email response answers one question I had....the transformer.
Overall, that puts the price at about $500 or so.....quite good.

I wonder if Peluso is selling his A caps or B stock.
If they are "A stock", I wonder how long he'd keep selling them and then be undercut, not that I am in anyway implying Dave Thomas is doing anythin wrong, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Popmann:

Do you need a clean room to do cap replacement? or just building them?

Just to build them.

quote:

Is it hard to change them out?

I haven't done it yet but am about to experiment on a few mics......I don't think it is difficult......just gotta handle the caps properly......no finger prints and no solder....and of course......don't drop it in your beer - unless you want a vintage sound

quote:

If it's a pretty simple procedure, I've got a Hamburg that's already quite "87ish" but lacking in the mid richness dept...if Peluso's 89 cap is as nice sounding as his 367...that's an $90 no brainer.

Well, the question there is how everything interacts.

It's worth a try, and you can probably always sell the capsule and cut your loss.

Yes, the mod's seem quite reasonable for what you end up with (I think all the prices I noted were CDN dollars)

There's not doubt that my buddy Brad will mod one, if not both his 460's, he just has a bunch of stuff he's upgrading first, but when he does I'll share his (our) findings.

Good point about the Peluso caps, Mad.

quote:

I'll share his (our) findings.

Please do so. BTW, any clue as to where I can find distributors of Apex mics in Europe? I'm normally pretty good in googlin myself, but I just can't seem to find anything.

Zygon, try the drop down tab HERE .Not sure where "Lowlands" is

Hey...I got an idea...since the Innertube87 I love so is a K67 cap with a C12 triode tube....maybe I should have these guys put in the Peluso 89 cap, the triode, and...oh, I can make a phone call and find out what the output tranny is in the Innertube...

I think Peluso's business used to BE his caps/repairs, no? I'm not sure why everyone is assuming that this mod is equivalent (or better) than his own designs (therefore "undercutting" him). It's still the Apex design mean to be used with another cap.

I smell sarcasm

quote:

Originally posted by Popmann:
Hey...I got an idea...since the Innertube87 I love so is a K67 cap with a C12 triode tube....maybe I should have these guys put in the Peluso 89 cap, the triode, and...oh, I can make a phone call and find out what the output tranny is in the Innertube...

No...actually none meant.

The Innertube is a bastard. Granted a bastard of maybe a different quality...but, that's what I liked about it...retained the Neumann low mid warmth--and an kept the uppermid sheen while losing a lot of the "hash"...and opened the top up a bit...

The Peluso 2247 was a fine mic...not the qualities I'm looking for, but the quality was there. Maybe I should call him and see what he thinks it'd sound like to but his 89 cap in his 251...

I'm not sure it's all that simple, though. Heck...somebody over at Gearslutz had a Neumann K67 put in his Pearlman and loves it. Maybe bastards are the future. And if this company is into custom "retro fitting" mics...maybe this is a cool way to do it.

I REALLY had a feeling if that Mojave had a real K67 in it (or maybe even the Peluso 89) I'd be done with my search. But, I mean, that's not something easily testable...by me.

Dot,

Can we expect the results of the 460 tests to appear in the On the Bench category sometime soon?

quote:

Originally posted by Dot:
Thanks for the link, Bazz.

The 460 we have here is undergoing various mods in the name of science.

Lol! Now THAT"S funny. I guess that's really what we're all doing, isn't it? Better gear, better sound in the name of science.

Hi Guys, John doesn't seem to mind me putting his capsules into low cost Chinese microphones. I have had a couple of conversations about this with him.

I am not selling these upgraded microphones as Peluso microphones just putting better capsules into Apex 460's,Nady TCM-1150's,Nady TCM 1100's and Nady TCM-1050's. I am not declaring that these sound as good as a Peluso microphone although, in my experience the capsule produces 90% of the sound. I don't believe that John is selling me inferior capsules and I have had nothing but a great experience dealing with him and the microphones that I have built up with his capsules have gotten great reviews by the end users. John probably needs to build up about 100 capsules of each style at a time to make it worthwhile so selling of a some to me is quite practical.

If I was still in the studio business and didn't have time to build up microphones then I would buy microphones from John and highly recommend his microphones to folks. John and Tom from Cinemag are a couple of the nicest fellas that I have ever dealt with and there is absolutely no BS with these guys they are fellow techs who have also been in the trenches.

I first bought a single CEK-89 capsule from John on E-bay and put it into an Apex 460 that I had upgraded with a selected 6072a tube and capacitor change. It was immediately apparent that the midrange was much smoother and there a nice rise in the 10K to 13k range. Also, his capsules are much more consistent between capsules than those made at ALCTRON for Apex and Nady.

The CEK-367 has a response that is within 1db of the printed TELE U47 response and the CEK-12 has a response that is within 1db of the printed C12 response.

I find the Alctron capsules can vary at LEAST 2-5 db between capsules and some can be just a might to bright. The Apex 460, Nady TCM 1150 and TCM 1050 all use the same 32mm capsule. These microphones also come stock with a 12AX7b no matter what the specifications state that are sent out with the microphones.

When I pulled of the capsule and put my signal generator on the input to the tube I get 6-8db more output about +18dbm before clipping with the 6072a tube installed. The Chinese transformer will start to saturate and distort at about +12dbm while the Cinemag transformer will handle 6db more output than this level.

The 460/1150 and 1050 all use the exact same circuit it is a copy of the C12 circuit but with one change the second half of the tube is configured as a cathode follower. This is a brilliant move on the part of the Chinese engineers as it allows the economical Chinese transformer to perform quite well. The cathode follower circuit does not increase the gain but simply lowers the output impedance. This also means that in the TCM-1050 a larger Cinemag transformer can be fitted that has a lower impedance ratio which will yield 3db more output and handle +24dbm. This Cinemag transformer in my experience performs better than than the original Telefunken U47 transformer. You can hear this on at www.cinemag.biz

I was very impressed the first time I heard a stock APEX 460 and it was easy to correct the gain issue and very easy to replace the tube. The 3-5 db lift at 2.7khz is quite nice on acoustic instruments and there are a couple of award winning engineers that really like their upgraded 460 microphones on acoustic guitar and strings. The 2.7k lift can be a bit bright on some vocalists and this can be accented even more by the brighter sounding capsules.

I had no idea that there was so much interest in having these microphones upgraded with tubes, capsules and transformers as I am scrambling to keep up with orders. I must apologize to some client for delays and my disorganization. I have had to put in some serious systems to track orders and keep upgraded parts in stock. I have also has some shipping problems that we finally resolved.

We no longer are bringing in the TCM-1050 but ask that clients buy these in the U.S. and just send us the microphone for upgrade. The shipping of the microphone in the case to us here in Vancouver and then back to U.S. client's was killing us.

Part of my reason for upgrading the 460 was than I was convinced I could built up a better microphone than the Telefunken Rft. Which is a Alctron 460/1150 microphone with a NOS tube and now a "telefunken???" transformer. I have never met the "dudes" from RFT but I very good friend who is a Pro audio saleman and met them at the AES say's he get a real used car saleman vibe from them. I am not a saleman but a tech who has been fixing tube gear since the mid 60's and was a owner operator of a major recording studio in Vancouver from the late 70's through to the early 90's. I know what is like to try and buy reasonable priced gear for the studio without paying for hype and marketing.

We do not have a clean room at the moment but the capsules are only out of the sealed containers for the time it takes to mount them on the saddle. Our tech room is not any more dusty or dirty than the average recording studio. However, we will be moving the shop in the near future and will build a room suited especially for installing capsules.

It is more important to have the room clean when the capsules are being assembled so that dirt/dust does not get under the outer mounting ring that goes over the edge of the mylar causing the capsules to have a tension that is not uniform.

We also just came back from visiting a microphone laboratory in Shanghai who quality control and capsules are much better than those coming from ALCTRON. We will be bringing in some very nice fet microphones with the Advanced Audio name. These will be similar to the U87 and another similar to the AKG 414 and will sell for under $400 each in a aluminum road case. The U87 type will have a bit less honk in the mids and a bit more 10k to 14K. The 414 type will have a slight dip in the midrange with a rise between 9k and 16k and has an edge fed capsule that is similar to the C12. We also will have a Pencil microphone with a very sturdy CARDIOD nose and comes in a aluminum road case with a switchable OMNI capsule. This microphone has a serious pad system and lf roll-off and will sell for under $300.

Once the Chinese power supply manufacturers resolve the LEAD FREE compliancy issue by using lead free solder then we will start to bring in some tube microphones and then add the capsule and transformer upgrade option.

This is why you won't find any 460/TCM 1050 type microphones in Europe at the moment. There were some brought in under the T bone name but they have stopped ordering them from Alctron because of the Lead Free compliancy regulations going into effect this summer. Canada will probably follow these compliancy regulations but I imagine they won't take effect in the U.S. until the Bush regime has been replaced with a more eco friendly administration.


Well I must run back to the workshop and get a few more microphones ready for shipping on Monday. Just thought I would try and fill everyone in on what has be transpiring with the newly formed Advanced Audio Microphone Company.

Best regards, Dave Thomas(drthomas@telus.net)

hello Dave,

i contacted you a while ago about sending some mics to Portugal. I would be much more interested in the U87 "clone" and the new pencil cardioid and omni one though...do you have any idea of when will these be out?

also, any chance you might be doing any mods to legite oktavas? i have 2 MK012's, and that lomo clone capsule that's supposed to sound a lot like an 87 itself, i really like the mics, but if i can get them to sound a lot better, maybe that's worth sending them over and spending some money...

anyway, just some thoughts...thanks a lot and i'm looking forward to these new ones..

thanks.

Great read - and first post, Dave. Welcome.

I know my bud is looking forward to upgrading both his 460's and I look forward to using them

I've heard great things about Dave's work from a couple of people here in Vancouver. Guys that have worked in the industry for over 20 yrs, so they were pretty sound endorsements.

quote:

in my experience the capsule produces 90% of the sound.

Put up a U67, M269, and a U87AI...all the same cap...and say that again.

That said, the Korby KAT4 does support the idea...although, it does switch for the two Neumann emus on the power supply-I assume reconfiguiring the amp in some way. I actually really liked his 67m head with the power supply set on C12/251.

I think it's more like a 50/50 situation. In terms of both quality and qualities. Not unlike the electric gtr/amp situation.A Les Paul does have a certain sound that carries through all amps you'd plug it into, but to say you could plug it into anything and get the same sound would be vast overstatement.

I do, however agree (like the guitar) that a good cap with the qualities you're looking for is the best place to start.