Hey SL, are you the one who worked as a machinist? I ask because I was a machinist's aid in a sonar lab for about a year. It was a good time.

Anyway, I understand there's a lot that goes into it, and that it's not cheap to get metalwork done, but I still think that it's not necessary to spend $100,000 just to get a functional mic stand. I mean, it's more than possible that for that particular design it was necessary, and that parts and labor kick the price per unit up to $750, but why that design? It's not like a mic stand is a high-tech piece of equipment, it's based on simple physics. Getting one to work shouldn't be a tall order.

quote:

Originally posted by Contrast Recording:
Hey SL, are you the one who worked as a machinist? I ask because I was a machinist's aid in a sonar lab for about a year. It was a good time.

Yeah, I'm a machinist. It's a great line of work, but not always clean or easy.

quote:

Anyway, I understand there's a lot that goes into it, and that it's not cheap to get metalwork done, but I still think that it's not necessary to spend $100,000 just to get a functional mic stand. I mean, it's more than possible that for that particular design it was necessary, and that parts and labor kick the price per unit up to $750, but why that design? It's not like a mic stand is a high-tech piece of equipment, it's based on simple physics. Getting one to work shouldn't be a tall order.

I agree with the idea here, and I'd like to have a couple of good mic stands for my own use. I think around $100.00 would be a lot of money for a mic stand, but consider an RCA 44 microphone (or even the recent Chineese knockoffs, Nady RSM-2, Apex 210 etc...). These mics approach the weight of a Gibson Les Paul. Trust me, I've put my Apex 210 on to my cheap boom stand and gravity kicks in right away.

I'm sure that Latch Lake is going after a niche market of full blown professional commercial studios, so this is not an ordinary stand. Similar to the way a NASCAR racing machine can cost over a million bucks.

The hard part about the stand is the clutch. Everything else will add up in cost as well, but consider that I can lift over 2 tons with a pry bar that's only 3 feet long, easily. Only by a quarter inch at a time, but that's how leverage works. (I weigh around 140 lbs.) To suspend an 8 pound microphone from a boom extended to around 4 feet might require a clutch that can hold over 200 pounds of force. I'm guessing, but it's something along those lines.

I can make a clamp that will do the same thing, but at the shop rates I work for it would cost around 150 bucks (if it works) and you'd need a socket set or box wrenches to operate it. Counterweights on the boom arm would help by a lot, as well as sand bags or something similar holding the base of the stand down. It would work, but it wouldn't be pretty or save any floor space. Adapted to a regular $20.00 Chineese mic stand, there's a serious risk of breaking the boom arm in half.

I agree that it's a lot of money for a mic stand, but also willing to consider that it works exceptionally well. The R&D; costs do seem to be high, but once you start rejecting parts that don't work they can add up fast.

It's like comparing the RCA 44 to a Nady. The Nady is less than one tenth the cost. I've never had an RCA to compare it to, nor do I expect to, but is there a difference?

Maybe Dot can figure that one out for us.


Sorry for the rant. I don't want to belabour the point, but given my own line of work it's not a huge surprise to see these kinds of expenses anymore. We couldn't even build a $20.00 Chineese stand in North America for anywhere near that price.


sl

Glad to here all of your oppinions on mic stand technology....but back off a little! Latch Lake was willing to send some stands in a clutch moment. And wheather you thing the price is crazy or just right, they sent DOT a ton of kick ass stands that cost a lot of money. I think that is fucking awesome!

Save the comments on thier business ethics for DOT's review thread on the stands. Companies will stop sending gear for reviews if the managment and business ethics are attacked. In the end all I care about is the product they deliver and not how much it cost them to design it.

JD

Where does it say I'm meant to reserve all my comments on the stands for a thread that doesn't even exist yet? Dot posted info on the stands, I think they're crazy expensive, I said so. I don't see any issue with that.

Also, I would hope they've realized by now that $750 is a lot of money for a mic stand. I'm pretty sure that my comments are not going to stop companies from sending gear to Dot. If Dot's got an issue with my comment, he can tell me so and I'll take it down. This is his thread.

The Latch Lake stands look very nice!! My initial impressions were that they were probably outstanding stands but that the price was clearly out of my reach.


That said, Dot pondered how many people really look at mic stands in studios? I do!! Reason is a) I want to know what I'm about to trust $1,000+ mics to and b) I want to know if I should expect it to sag during tracking, drop in the middle of a live concert, break clean off before I can get the boom fully tightened, seize up, or any of the other pathetic or embarrasing things that all my cheap stands have done. That's right, 100% of my cheap stands have failed outright. Some were designed in such an asinine way that something sinple like a boom failure rendered the whole stands useless and I couldn't just swap in another boom. I'll never buy em again!

Right now I stick sqaurely with AKG (K&M;) stands. They cost me $70-100 each and well worth it. Mostly they hold up very well. I won't say they don't get sloppy, but they don't usually fail. I had one boom go impotent. I swapped in a spare boom and was ready to go; called up support at my dealer (Full Compass) and had the correct part to me the next day, free of charge, and they sent an extra couple parts "just in case." I definitely got my money's worth there. And If I added it up, I'm sure I own more than $750 worth of mic stands.


It sounds like I'll get to play around with these Latch Lakes next week so hopefully I will have something to say about 'em. The price is very steep but who knows, if it's a truely lifetime product I'd look at it another way--how much will I spend buying a heap of new shitty mic stands every year and how many headaches will they cause me in that year? Previous experience tell me alot. Or you can take another route and, best case scenario, plunk down a pile of cash once and never have to worry about it again.


What call is there to balk at the one company who's trying to make a standout product in an otherwise cesspool of mediocrity? Yeah, you pay for innovation and eventually when they find their niche(s) perhaps other compelling products will come out for the low-budg project studio set. I'm going to give these a chance before coming down on them, whether I can afford them or not. And yes it was cool of them to hook Dan and Ronan up on short notice, web fame or not!

we actually used Latch Lake stands for the overheads in Kentucky. (the studio had four of them) I cann not vouch for them over the long term as I have only used them once, but they were a breeze to use and stayed put. That's about all I could ever ask for.

quote:

Thanks DOT. By you giving us little updates, we kind of all feel like this is "our" little project too. Not that we have any say in the results, but its like watching a child grow.

Maybe I can figure out some way for all you guys to have some say in the project?!?!?!?!?

quote:

Originally posted by Darius:
As an aside, if I could get anybody to record drums with me I'd pick Levon Helm. Just what I like I guess.

Just make sure you got his vocal on as well. What a great vocalist.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronan Chris Murphy:

quote:

Thanks DOT. By you giving us little updates, we kind of all feel like this is "our" little project too. Not that we have any say in the results, but its like watching a child grow.

Maybe I can figure out some way for all you guys to have some say in the project?!?!?!?!?

Hee hee heee....Just do your thing! I am excited to hear it, and will no doubt buy a copy.

If I'm Bill Gates, I might pay 750 for mic stands, but that's just me. I'm not the customer they are looking for. This should be a great thread, look forward to reading it often.

bford

Here's a cool page with some mic stand accessories:

http://www.mercenary.com/aeamiarpo.html


sl

quote:

If I'm Bill Gates, I might pay 750 for mic stands, but that's just me. I'm not the customer they are looking for. This should be a great thread, look forward to reading it often.

Right, I agree. I really wasn't trying to put the stands down at all. I tend to come off as a dick online, and for that I'm sorry. I'm sure the stands are very nice. I guess it seems ridiculous for me personally to spend that kind of money on something as simple as a mic stand. But, if you can afford it, why not? My main point was, it shouldn't be impossible for someone to design a stand that works very well for a lower price. Sorry if I offended anyone, wasn't my intention. ON WITH THE THREAD!

quote:

Originally posted by snow lizard:
Here's a cool page with some mic stand accessories:

http://www.mercenary.com/aeamiarpo.html


sl

While I accept a $750 mic stand, I just cannot get into a $575 mini decca tree My god.


Dot, this is gonna be stupid fun

$750 ain't cheap, but if you figure you can add many $75 booms to it, then the overall expense isn't as much. Jeff says you can mic a normal drum kit with two micKing's and some additional booms.

We'll try out the micKing's and I'll give a full report.

So, I don't hear anybody bitchin about the DPA 4011's or 4066's - which run $5K per pair. : )

Touche

Gotham Audio Cables will be handling cables.
http://www.gothamaudiousa.com/

Had some good talks with Lew Frisch of Gotham Audio. For the sessions we'll be using GAC-3's and GAC-4/1 "Star Quad's".

Gotham cables used to be shipped with Neumann mics. Interesting read in the Gotham history section on their website.

quote:

Originally posted by dirtyragamuffin:

While I accept a $750 mic stand, I just cannot get into a $575 mini decca tree My god.

Well it's a good thing you didn't notice the $945 Super Tree.


sl

quote:

Originally posted by Dot:
So, I don't hear anybody bitchin about the DPA 4011's or 4066's - which run $5K per pair. : )

Those prices are outrageous.

(Terry Bozzio is also outrageous in his own right, so I think this will end up being a good thing.)


Interesting read on the cables.

I've never been very knowledgeable about good cables beyond knowing that Belden was supposed to be pretty good. I'm not too fond of the expense of cables sometimes, especially when I need something that isn't exactly "standard". I keep wondering about stuff like "why star quad", or if there's ever a disadvantage to using star quad cables for shorter runs over a standard twisted pair design, or if a regular mic cable would be suitable for making an unbalanced TRS to TRS insert cable which would send and receive signals in opposite directions. I don't see why not, but it's because I don't really know.

I also wonder if Slipperman's reference to Gotham City has anything to do with this company.

I can solder, so at some point I'll end up buying bulk cable and a bag of connectors to make my own. Of course it would help if I had a clue about what to buy.

I've never heard of Gotham in this context before. Looks like they make great stuff.


sl

Gotham Audio cables are not expensive. I don't remember exact numbers, but Lew said finished mic cables will run anywhere from around $25.00 - $35.00. In that neighborhood.

And, of course, the bulk prices are published on their site.